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That's kinda what I was getting at, yeah. I just feel like if the training were necessary to counteract the nicotine, then nicotine would not have been recommended post-training as per the morning protocol.
Very good point. I think everyone has got very stressed over a little bit of nicotine lol. If kiefer wanted us to not take nicotine on a non training day then the IF protocol and the morning protocol wouldn't exist. Also he would of made a point of saying not to do it. I think he just assumed that we understood why we could split nicotine and carb intake without causing a problem, because of the way our diet works.
This further supports the idea that off-day nicotine supplementation is okay.
That's kinda what I was getting at, yeah. I just feel like if the training were necessary to counteract the nicotine, then nicotine would not have been recommended post-training as per the morning protocol.
Yeah, that last sentenced was not worded properly on my part. It was meant to be an agreeance with your statement, not a new reason, that the Morning Protocol is evidence for off-day nicotine dosing.
I'll chime in with an anecdotal comment. I train mornings on DB. I have ONLY been using nicotine on off-days (4mg on waking and AM Accelerator). I've kept this up for 2 weeks so far so I don't really have any conclusive opinion on it yet but I have actually lost 1kg while bulking. My strength has been completely unaffected. It would seem that I am successfully recompositioning with the aid of the nicotine gum.
This is a good discussion and I've definitely learned a lot from it. I re-read the section in CBL on caffeine and of course that can also cause transient insulin resistance – which mimics circadian rhythms when training in the morning. Nicotine is being used to the same effect by supplementing before and after for that protocol, which makes sense.It should be noted that the tGLUT suppression caused by nicotine is the insulin mediated type by the way, much the same as caffeine's. Taking it after training won't affect the non-insulin mediated translocation we benefit from.
I believe that the insulin mediated tGLUT of note here would be GLUT4, which is the same tGLUT affected by training. That's part of what makes it interesting and synergistic with CBL is that training causes GLUT4 to surface in muscle cells independently of insulin, and then subsequent insulin release by the carbs further causes GLUT4 expression in muscle cells. That being said, I believe it is the same tGLUT being affected, it is just the stimulus which changes.So the nicotine would be suppressing GLUT4, which is the insulin mediated kind that is also independently translocated by resistance training. At least that is the way I see it.
One thing I have loved about this thread is the intelligence and problem solving capabilities on this forum! I was not necessarily concerned about insulin resistance and nicotine. I was just referring back to an older article that Kiefer wrote about use of nicotine where he recommended use only on training days, After reading everything, I am going to use at least the AM dose daily, regardless of whether or not I train.
One thing I have loved about this thread is the intelligence and problem solving capabilities on this forum! I was not necessarily concerned about insulin resistance and nicotine. I was just referring back to an older article that Kiefer wrote about use of nicotine where he recommended use only on training days, After reading everything, I am going to use at least the AM dose daily, regardless of whether or not I train.
That seems to be the safest way to use nicotine as per the book. Keep them as far away from your carbs as possible each day
Lots of great discussion, here. My two questions went unanswered, so I thought I'd repost them.1) Is nicotine supplementation best for people already trim and wanting to get those last few percents of fat off? Or, for people with high body fat? Or, does it work roughly the same for both?More specifically, I'm at about 36% BF. I weigh 250 pounds. I'd like to get to 225 fairly quickly.Exercise, reduced calories, and IF should get me there. (I've already lost 16 pounds doing that.) I've not yet hit any plateau.Would nicotine supplementation accelerate my fat loss over what I'm doing now? Or, would I be better off waiting for my first plateau and starting then?2) Who's noticed significant fat loss as a result of nicotine?Thanks a bunch!
1) I believe it's best for all folks wanting to get rid of actual body fat. Fat loss and losing body fat is a different process as the Report talks about. Your diet/nutrition will help your goal. I would use the gum if you wanted.2) The Report has barely been out for about two weeks, too soon to give an adequate discussion whether or not it has help rid of body fat. The alertness and mental clarity is different.
Thanks, Tex. For some reason, I was thinking it had been out longer than that.CRAP! I waited too long. 50% sale is gone. (sigh)
For someone who does morning fasted HIIT and does the nicotine gum 1st thing in morning, will taking a ULC PWO shake be an issue? Thanks!
For someone who does morning fasted HIIT and does the nicotine gum 1st thing in morning, will taking a ULC PWO shake be an issue? Thanks!
No
For someone who does morning fasted HIIT and does the nicotine gum 1st thing in morning, will taking a ULC PWO shake be an issue? Thanks!
The only thing I've read is Kiefer says to take it away from carbs. Timing of the ingestion of protein and fats to that of caffeine and/or nicotine make little if any difference.
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