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...aside from Kiefer's personal clients, I have yet to see any real impressive results where someone was fat and got down to 10% bf or under.
Kiefer actually states in the CBL book that FAT people (>20% BF) should be on CNS. He has stated many times that CBL's primary function is to build muscle without gaining fat. Then he says that some of his clients have actually lost fat, as well.But, he has not promoted it as his fat loss product. That's CNS. CBL allows you to avoid the common Bulk and Cut cycles. And, it has the side benefit of working for fat loss for some people.
...aside from Kiefer's personal clients, I have yet to see any real impressive results where someone was fat and got down to 10% bf or under.
Kiefer actually states in the CBL book that FAT people (>20% BF) should be on CNS. He has stated many times that CBL's primary function is to build muscle without gaining fat. Then he says that some of his clients have actually lost fat, as well.But, he has not promoted it as his fat loss product. That's CNS. CBL allows you to avoid the common Bulk and Cut cycles. And, it has the side benefit of working for fat loss for some people.
QuoteEat like a pig. Get shredded.The carb back-loading diet could provide the holy grail of packing on mass without adding fat. Read on and find out why carbs are not the enemy. --Muscle & Fitness Magazine, March 2011QuoteCarb Back-loading is easily my favorite nutrition strategy that I've ever experimented with. Kiefer has made the dream a reality: eat anything you want and lose fat while building muscle. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tried it myself. There’s a reason we called it Nutrition’s Holy Grail when we wrote about it at the magazine: It works as advertised! --Sean Hyson, lost 35lbs in 12 weeks while hitting a squat PR of 405lbsBoth of these quotes are both from the CBL cheat sheet and yet I'm still getting replies that state that CBL is not for fat loss. I think some get tunnel vision and are enjoying the ride with the back loads but are forgetting about the big picture, Body recomposition. I'm not Powerlifter so I don't really care about hitting PR's and going up in weight for a certain weight class, I care about body appearance.
So go for CNS, I don't get the problem. Although some statements say that you can loose fat, it's mainly a lean mass building diet. So if I build muscle and and not gain any fat, technically I am getting leaner, cause my BW goes up, so %bf goes down.
Best way to work out whether CBL is all its cranked up to be is to try it for yourself… There are so many variables to consider… Results will vary greatly between individuals.
IMO, the best way to utilize CBL or CNS or any diet is to have at least a competent comprehension of the compound movements. One book that helped explain the proper forms for bench, squat, deadlift, and military press is Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. I am always trying to perfect my form on these lifts. But do realize there is a smart and wrong way for a lot of things. Try to avoid paralysis by analysis.If one can handle more weight at the same or less bodyfat, I believe one will see greater physique changes faster.
Regardless of your results with pure CBL or CNS, there are some great points to take-away as their are with a lot of nutritional setups. The paleolithic diet suggests we eat less processed foods and stick with the basics.IF protocols advocate for frequent fasting and stress that eating every 2-3 hours is not necessary.CBL/CNS promote withholding carbs earlier in the day and saving them for when they can be used most efficiently.All of these offer information which individuals can combine to fit their own lifestyle and free them from traditional assertions about diet/nutrition and exercise.
Regardless of your results with pure CBL or CNS, there are some great points to take-away as their are with a lot of nutritional setups. The paleolithic diet suggests we eat less processed foods and stick with the basics.IF protocols advocate for frequent fasting and stress that eating every 2-3 hours is not necessary.CBL/CNS promote withholding carbs earlier in the day and saving them for when they can be used most efficiently.All of these offer information which individuals can combine to fit their own lifestyle and free them from traditional assertions about diet/nutrition and exercise.
This. Any diet has to be tweaked and to get really lean you have to be a bit more anal about calories (amounts of food for those who have an issue with the word), that is unless you are predisposed to being lean in the first place. Or maybe you have no appetite which will make it easy to get results while "eating as much as you want". However, CBL has allowed me to get away with crazy dietary shenanigans without putting on any fat, so I'd say it is ideal from a lean mass gain/performance perspective. I have lost weight while on it, but it's just a bit slower on the scale because I don't walk around glycogen-depleted for most of the week like I used to on UD 2.0, LG or even the Predator Diet. The biggest mind fuck, for me, is waking up still pretty damn lean after eating like it's a sport. It makes it harder to dial things back when I should, but that's just confirmation of my own disordered eating habits and the diet's efficiency.
Ive had good results losing fat with cbl sa it took me from 10% to 8% bf and added at least 10lbs of muscle ( more considering i dropped 2% bf ) taking me from 205 ( fully hydrated, with full glycogen stores ) to 215 at 5'8 it wasn't instant but nothing legitimate is. This was after a 6 month plateau. On top of that i think it was only claimed to get people to 10% so it exceeded my expectations.
Did you stick to the basics and get results steadily or did you have to make several tweaks to get the results that you were hoping for?
I came into cbl knowing my body, for example i am sensitive to gluten and can't handle dairy very well so i adjusted accordingly.... No matter how awesome someone tells me the pool is, i wouldn't jump in if i couldn't swim.
CBL is designed so you can stay strong and keep gaining mass while losing bodyfat. Keifer has said over and over again that once you reach sub 10% bodyfat, it would probably be ideal to do modified Carb Nite to go even lower. CBL is excellent for going from say 15% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat. You can still recompt below 10%, I know this to be true because I have done it myself. Plain and simple, CBL is not for rapid fat loss.The reason why you don't see many "success stories" on these forums is because most on the forums that use CBL are people who aren't interested in becoming super lean. The people on here that are trying to be lean, but fail to do so are, in my opinion, not focusing on hypertrophy enough. Most people don't realize how muscular the physique they are trying to obtain is. If some of these people really did get down to 8% bodyfat without extra mass, they would look like skeletons. However, from my own experiences, the body does not like to get into the low bodyfat percentages without an appreciable amount of muscle. It isn't a diet issue, it is a training issue.
CBL is designed so you can stay strong and keep gaining mass while losing bodyfat. Keifer has said over and over again that once you reach sub 10% bodyfat, it would probably be ideal to do modified Carb Nite to go even lower. CBL is excellent for going from say 15% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat. You can still recompt below 10%, I know this to be true because I have done it myself. Plain and simple, CBL is not for rapid fat loss.The reason why you don't see many "success stories" on these forums is because most on the forums that use CBL are people who aren't interested in becoming super lean. The people on here that are trying to be lean, but fail to do so are, in my opinion, not focusing on hypertrophy enough. Most people don't realize how muscular the physique they are trying to obtain is. If some of these people really did get down to 8% bodyfat without extra mass, they would look like skeletons. However, from my own experiences, the body does not like to get into the low bodyfat percentages without an appreciable amount of muscle. It isn't a diet issue, it is a training issue.
+1 I couldn't agree more.
CBL is designed so you can stay strong and keep gaining mass while losing bodyfat. Keifer has said over and over again that once you reach sub 10% bodyfat, it would probably be ideal to do modified Carb Nite to go even lower. CBL is excellent for going from say 15% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat. You can still recompt below 10%, I know this to be true because I have done it myself. Plain and simple, CBL is not for rapid fat loss.The reason why you don't see many "success stories" on these forums is because most on the forums that use CBL are people who aren't interested in becoming super lean. The people on here that are trying to be lean, but fail to do so are, in my opinion, not focusing on hypertrophy enough. Most people don't realize how muscular the physique they are trying to obtain is. If some of these people really did get down to 8% bodyfat without extra mass, they would look like skeletons. However, from my own experiences, the body does not like to get into the low bodyfat percentages without an appreciable amount of muscle. It isn't a diet issue, it is a training issue.
+1 I couldn't agree more.
In a world accustomed to instant gratification, this is refreshing. Too many people on here whine and complain that they aren't seeing results in too short of a time frame. This shit isn't RFL or PSMF.
CBL is designed so you can stay strong and keep gaining mass while losing bodyfat. Keifer has said over and over again that once you reach sub 10% bodyfat, it would probably be ideal to do modified Carb Nite to go even lower. CBL is excellent for going from say 15% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat. You can still recompt below 10%, I know this to be true because I have done it myself. Plain and simple, CBL is not for rapid fat loss.The reason why you don't see many "success stories" on these forums is because most on the forums that use CBL are people who aren't interested in becoming super lean. The people on here that are trying to be lean, but fail to do so are, in my opinion, not focusing on hypertrophy enough. Most people don't realize how muscular the physique they are trying to obtain is. If some of these people really did get down to 8% bodyfat without extra mass, they would look like skeletons. However, from my own experiences, the body does not like to get into the low bodyfat percentages without an appreciable amount of muscle. It isn't a diet issue, it is a training issue.
+1 I couldn't agree more.
In a world accustomed to instant gratification, this is refreshing. Too many people on here whine and complain that they aren't seeing results in too short of a time frame. This shit isn't RFL or PSMF.
Straight truth. Continue to preach, brothers!
CBL was released in December 2011 with the selling point being that you could lose body fat and get ripped while slamming down huge amount of carbs from pizza, pastries, rice, etc during the evening hours and after training (depending on your schedule).My observations since joining the forums in May have been that many people have seen great results with CNS, but not too many with CBL.My guess is, why not? If you follow the basic plan: 1)Fast for a couple of hours while drinking black coffee with MCT or Coconut oil until your first meal2)ULC meal with 1:1 Fat/Protein ratio3) Resistance Training then PWO shake afterwards(Leucine, Creatine, hydrolysates,Carbs)4) Slam the carbs with some more protein(plus more leucine, creatine)If the plan is that simple, why are people not getting the results? Isn't that why we are all here in the first place, to get ripped while eating huge amount of the carbs?Maybe the plan isn't so simple and maybe it doesn't work without Kiefer there to coach you?Again, this my personal observation.
I've not read the rest of the posts yet (pages worth), so I am just going to reply to the original w/ my thoughts.I am an advanced lifter, with years of experience.I ran CBL for one month. I went from ~230 lbs. to 228, and noticed that some of my measurements increased (muscle-wise). I didn't expect miracles w/ muscle gain, as I know that muscle grows slowly -- over time -- with proper feeding and training, but the fat loss was too slow for how much I needed to lose. So, switched to CNS... but plan to return to CBL once I hit 10% body fat.In conclusion, I see CBL as more of a mass gain protocol, rather than a fat-loss protocol.To make it simple:You want to get ripped? Go CNS.You want to get huge? Go CBL.You want to do both? First, ensure you are already reasonably fit, and go CBL (to add muscle while burning off the last few pounds of fat).Cory
CBL was released in December 2011 with the selling point being that you could lose body fat and get ripped while slamming down huge amount of carbs from pizza, pastries, rice, etc during the evening hours and after training (depending on your schedule).My observations since joining the forums in May have been that many people have seen great results with CNS, but not too many with CBL.My guess is, why not? If you follow the basic plan: 1)Fast for a couple of hours while drinking black coffee with MCT or Coconut oil until your first meal2)ULC meal with 1:1 Fat/Protein ratio3) Resistance Training then PWO shake afterwards(Leucine, Creatine, hydrolysates,Carbs)4) Slam the carbs with some more protein(plus more leucine, creatine)If the plan is that simple, why are people not getting the results? Isn't that why we are all here in the first place, to get ripped while eating huge amount of the carbs?Maybe the plan isn't so simple and maybe it doesn't work without Kiefer there to coach you?Again, this my personal observation.
If you are sampling from the forum then you definitely are not getting correct representation. This forum is built to support those that need more clarification about the system, and those that basically like a community of co-aspiring members around them while they try it out.ANY diet will have varied effects depending on the individual who's trying it. There are so many variables that affect results: genetics, current state, natural or developed disabilities, history of dieting, etc. etc. CBL will work, but how much and to what degree depends on the factors previously mentioned. That is the reason for this forum. CBL users who have success with the program are less motivated to use the Forums unless they like the social aspect of it, or they like helping others out. Those who are running into difficulties (because of the conditions above) naturally have a lot of questions and would comprise the majority of the membership. Those who want to tweak it further and are motivated to get even better results are also here to gain that knowledge. There are also the academics who like the theory and want to debate.I see some trends in those who do not achieve phenomenal results with this program:1. NOT doing the prep phase. The prep phase is essential. That is why it is there. In fact, CBL users would only stand to benefit by periodically going through the prep phase. A good time to do this is during deload weeks or vacations.2. NOT knowing truly how rigorous a TGLUT activating workout program is. Heavy workouts mean almost as many things as people who talk about it. Marathon, endurance running is not a heavy workout.3. Trying to make the program what it is not. It is not for vegans. It is not optimal for vegetarians. So why keep insisting? 4. Not reading through and putting personal biases on what should be solid scientific findings. A lot of non-optimal results, as can be seen in this Forum, stem from people not truly understanding what they are reading. Results will vary with an individual who has Martial Arts as a primary workout, from a powerlifter, from a bodybuilder, from a runner etc. etc. Don't think people who Kiefer has worked with personally did not have their own failures. Many resisted his recommendations along the lines of the above. Because they worked with him individually, they came around and truly learned what they had to learn to make it work. Individual attention is what they sought, got and succeeded from. But most users of this forum and the book will not have that kind of time with Kiefer and that is why he is developing a circle of DH trainers to perform just that kind of service. This forum is extremely valuable for Kiefer as ideas and concerns arising from it directs his attention to what he needs to address on succeeding versions of the program. So keep it up! 🙂There's more but this is all I have time for.Laters.
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