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For all you nutrition nerds out there, John Ivy brings the hammer on a lot of CBL principles on Blue Collar Radio.Essentially, he makes the point that peri-workout nutrition is essential which I am starting to believe in due to my own experiences in the past months. Then he makes a case for breakfast being extremely important which I found interesting. I'd love someone to refute this as I personally hate eating upon waking up.
i agree with the peri-workout being far more important than people give it credit for.. as for breakfast i can see the reasoning behind having a small shake like the accelerator shake first thing in the AM but really don't see any point in having a large meal first thing unless you wake up ravenous.. me personally a small shake is all my stomach can handle in the AM…but when it comes to all this stuff i don't think we will ever find concrete evidence to say this is the best way for everyone. There are just to many factors that go into this. You can dig up 1000 studies and then see only 10 are done on well trained athletes so do the other 950 have any merit on you? it's hard to say. Were those 10 just sponsored by a supplment company trying to push a product? possibly..What are those people eating day in and day out.. what is their current state of health overall? why type of training are they doing? how much and how often? just to much to consider to say this is how it should be for atheletes as a whole.. only thing we can do is try everything and see what works best for you personally and go from there..
i agree with the peri-workout being far more important than people give it credit for.. as for breakfast i can see the reasoning behind having a small shake like the accelerator shake first thing in the AM but really don't see any point in having a large meal first thing unless you wake up ravenous.. me personally a small shake is all my stomach can handle in the AM...but when it comes to all this stuff i don't think we will ever find concrete evidence to say this is the best way for everyone. There are just to many factors that go into this. You can dig up 1000 studies and then see only 10 are done on well trained athletes so do the other 950 have any merit on you? it's hard to say. Were those 10 just sponsored by a supplment company trying to push a product? possibly..What are those people eating day in and day out.. what is their current state of health overall? why type of training are they doing? how much and how often? just to much to consider to say this is how it should be for atheletes as a whole.. only thing we can do is try everything and see what works best for you personally and go from there..
Let's be clear that I fully agree with you there buddy, but from his standpoint to avoid muscle breakdown at all costs, one should not wait to eat upon waking up. I don't know how much breakdown would occur in the case of people eating gigantic meals before bed like a lot of us are doing. He has quite a strong stance on the topic, so I thought I might shoot this to you guys to see what you think about it.One of the more interesting points is that for maximal fat burning, you basically HAVE to get some carbs with your protein post-workout and the studies he cites seem pretty legit. Basically his idea is to have 3 meals a day with a pre-bed protein source and peri-workout nutrition which I find quite reasonable, though I find his idea that you must absolutely eat something upon waking up to go against a lot of recent diets that are set up so that you keep insulin low for at least a couple hours.
Okay so with being against eating upon waking, why not take leucine as a replacement? It would provide the same affects that you're wanting with preventing muscle break down. I am doing it.
I am not against having a shake or leucine really, but I thought the whole point was to keep insulin low to have some extra fat burning. Do you feel the leucine is doing anything when you take it? Just wondering how important the effects are either way. For him to claim that training fasted and prolonging breakfast are terrible ideas I wonder how much of a difference it really makes.
Having carbs is the issue with fat storage at the wrong parts of the day. Leucine does not have that affect, yes it will spike insulin but the effect you get from it is similar as a meal. There's an article in the FLEX magazine about it, Layne Norton talks about Pulsing, and I believe there is other articles shared among the forums. I have just started taking it this week and even added MCT oil back into my first coffee. Now if you train in the morning a PWO Shake will do what I mentioned about leucine.
my take is like you said depends on how you eat… normally people have a big dinner then maybe a snack late at night.. but if you have a large meal closer to bed do you need food in the morning? also depends what you eat..beef has been shown to take a very long time to digest..in this case you would have those aminos still going through you in the morning anyway… all in all I still say to many factors to make a conclusion one way or another
He pretty much says he eats your typical bber breakfast and doesn't talk about just having protein, leucine or just a fat source. I found the interview interesting because carbs around workouts seem to be a must, but the breakfast deal made me chuckle a bit.
He pretty much says he eats your typical bber breakfast and doesn't talk about just having protein, leucine or just a fat source. I found the interview interesting because carbs around workouts seem to be a must, but the breakfast deal made me chuckle a bit.
i'm big beliver in carbs around workouts being a HUGE benefit.. i do them pre-intra-and post
Tex why are you just using Leucine first thing AM? I don't know that that will do much as having the full BCAA combo. All three together work much differently in the body than alone. On breakfast, optimally- to prevent muscle breakdown and promote muscle growth I think having some fats&protein first thing is best. Add some BCAA to the combo and your gtg for a while. Tons of studies out there pointing to the benefit of this. And Keifer talks on it through his 3 articles on fasting as well as his meal timing article.
A small amount of carbs, like 15 g with protein and caffeine. Intra not necessary unless the workout is super long, then it is similar to pre but probably more carbs. After he suggests 30-40 g of protein with like 60 g of carbs or something..like a 1:2 protein to card ratio. Seems there are no pros about skipping that altogether, not even to tap into fat stores.
Let's be clear that I fully agree with you there buddy, but from his standpoint to avoid muscle breakdown at all costs, one should not wait to eat upon waking up. I don't know how much breakdown would occur in the case of people eating gigantic meals before bed like a lot of us are doing. He has quite a strong stance on the topic, so I thought I might shoot this to you guys to see what you think about it.
This is pretty much the exact reason that Keifer has the AM Accelerator shake.. At least I think it is. Protein to slow/stop MPB and MCT to prop up ketone production (which is muscle sparing). Seems like a pretty similar idea with the exception Keifer put it out there as a drink, and this guy is saying eat food.Also, I'd say it depends on goals. If pure fat loss goals, does Ivy feel the same way? Generally, BB types are more concerned about gaining LBM, in which case I'd say first-thing-AM nutrition becomes more important.
Let's be clear that I fully agree with you there buddy, but from his standpoint to avoid muscle breakdown at all costs, one should not wait to eat upon waking up. I don't know how much breakdown would occur in the case of people eating gigantic meals before bed like a lot of us are doing. He has quite a strong stance on the topic, so I thought I might shoot this to you guys to see what you think about it.
This is pretty much the exact reason that Keifer has the AM Accelerator shake.. At least I think it is. Protein to slow/stop MPB and MCT to prop up ketone production (which is muscle sparing). Seems like a pretty similar idea with the exception Keifer put it out there as a drink, and this guy is saying eat food.Also, I'd say it depends on goals. If pure fat loss goals, does Ivy feel the same way? Generally, BB types are more concerned about gaining LBM, in which case I'd say first-thing-AM nutrition becomes more important.
+1I did not listen to the podcast, but it sounds to me that he is attacking CBL without really knowing what it is.First, CBL IS peri-workout nutrition. While you aren't having pre-workout and intra workout carbs, you are having a large carb load post workout.Second, it doesn't sound like this guy is considering that many people that are on Carb Nite and not having carbs post workout, aren't because they have insulin issues. Pretty much every guru worth listening too would agree that people who are overweight (likely insulin resistant) should not be consuming a large amount of carbs.Third, I think if you want to gain as much muscle as possible, breakfast is a good idea. That is why Kiefer recommends breakfast for people that Density Bulk and Kiefer recommends the accelerator shake for everyone. What I don't understand is the point of the carbs at breakfast if you aren't training in the morning.Just as SanosukeX said, pretty much everyone can use studies to their advantage. Also in my personal opinion, the best "diet" is one that works for you and you can stick to. I know this is a controversial belief, but I honestly believe people put WAY too much stock in which diet will result in more gains. The diet that allows you to PERFORM (meaning train hard) is the one that will give you the most muscle growth.
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