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Well, I've never done WW, or known anyone who has. All I know is that they do calorie counting and encourage people to do cardio . . . Oh, and they sell cakes to fat people.I think they are likely ruining people's metabolisms. CNS is a better way to go. It's not as extreme as you make out. Something that is extreme is painstakingly calculating every 'calorie' that you consume and every 'calorie' that you supposedly burn. If people can do that, they can drop carbs. Bacon and eggs really isn't that hard to eat.
Since you've never done WW you must not know that it does not, in fact, advocate calorie counting. It uses a point based system. The old system used to use fat, fiber and calories to calculate points, but the new system uses fat, fiber, carbs (and maybe calories...can't remember) to calculate. Surprisingly, if you chose higher carb foods, the higher the points. And the heavier you are, the more points you get for the day so it's definately not a starvation diet.Now, don't get me wrong...I don't agree with the WW products but I never bought any so there's that. And, it may not seem extreme to you (or me who has done paleo before and other low carb diets) but not having carbs except once a week is hell and extreme to a lot of people. Especially when there are programs like WW out there that work for a lot of people. Most people aren't trying to be athletic or train for a competition. They just want to be thin, even if it means being "skinny fat" which WW can certainly do!
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)
Agreed, Kiefer even spoke about this. The only successful people on WW are the ones who continue on eating 800 calories a day.
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)
Alright, this argument is getting a little too personal so this is my last input. I don't remember reading anything in CNS about eating whole foods and less processed foods so that must be in one of the bio jacked episodes or youtube videos. However, I don't do it because kiefer told me to, I do it because I enjoy whole foods and believe its healthier. Also, lets not get too carried away with calling the people who eat cookies and cakes fat. After all, CNS (and backloading) allow us to eat this way as well.
CNS is a better way to go. It's not as extreme as you make out. Something that is extreme is painstakingly calculating every 'calorie' that you consume and every 'calorie' that you supposedly burn. If people can do that, they can drop carbs. Bacon and eggs really isn't that hard to eat.
I disagree, I think any sort of ketogenic diet is very extreme relative to what most people are used to. I know when I first started to limit carbs years ago I found it very, very difficult at first. Much harder than simple calorie reduction. I think it depends on the types of foods you were raised on, which unfortunately for most people is cereal for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch, and pasta for dinner.
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)
I agree, but the fact is the diet works for what most people want out of it and unless they return to the previous diet, they shouldn't regain weight. I got very lean on the oatmeal and egg whites diet. While the food tasted like shit and wasn't very satisfying, I kept leaning out and I stayed more muscular than most people. Almost all diets work, some just work better than others.If someone is on weight watchers, I wish them luck and I am glad they are taking the initiative to lose fat and you should do the same. Be there for them and offer your opinions and advice if they ask for it. I have said it before, nutrition is like politics, it is a subject people get passionate about. I let my results and the fact that I eat a very satisfying and enjoyable diet speak for itself. They will eventually come around if they really care. A perfect example is myself, I used to VERY ant-low carb diet and even anti-Kiefer when I first learned about him. Now I have a man crush on him.The health subject is a whole other issue. Even if WW is anti cholesterol and saturated fat and pro-PUFA, if their clients lose weight, it will be an improvement regardless of the type of fats they consume.
I think this type of plan will probably slow people's metabolisms down, and they will likely have to stay on WW for life to maintain.Also, just look at Jean. She is clearly obese, yet she is 140 lbs at 5'7. What does that say about her LBM?For comparison, I am 130 lbs and 5'3 and reasonably lean (yet, I'm hardly a powerlifter).If people following these sort of low calorie (and it is low cal, because they're not using any sort of hormonal method to reduce BF%) diets knew what they were doing to their bone density, their health, and their metabolism, I don't believe they would be so quick to use WW.
This is the end of the discussion between diets, when you feed a fat girl WW Cheesecake sure she adds up he points or whatever the system is and fits the reduced calorie cheesecake into her macros and she loses weight then she moves to India for a job oppurtunity and guess what she needs cheescake bt they dont have WW cheeseake so she eats regular cheescake and puts the fat back on or more. Also can we please mention health here? Carb nite is based around whole foods, whether grain or grass fed they are WHOLE foods with very little chemicals, preservatives and proceessing. WW allows you to have white bread for breakfast, frozen meals for lunch and dinner with some awful proccessed desert. I am an avid opponent of any program like WW, your fat cause you like cake and cookies buying less calorie dense cakes and cookies doesn't solve the problem. (end rant)
Alright, this argument is getting a little too personal so this is my last input. I don't remember reading anything in CNS about eating whole foods and less processed foods so that must be in one of the bio jacked episodes or youtube videos. However, I don't do it because kiefer told me to, I do it because I enjoy whole foods and believe its healthier. Also, lets not get too carried away with calling the people who eat cookies and cakes fat. After all, CNS (and backloading) allow us to eat this way as well.
I agree. If we keep vehemently attacking programs like WW to the point we are bashing their clients, it just makes us look like douchebags,
For some reason, this reminds me of the following image:
As for the WW chick up top, those fuckin' snacks are full of shit ingredients. Not the epitome of health, anyhow.I don't like comparing photos. You can show me one person who has lived to 115, smoked packs ea. day, drank 'til they were tanked, and ate like shit, but I can show you 10 people to that one who did the same and ended up fucked.Genetics play a huge role. Some people are just bound to age poorer than others... lifestyle excluded. That said, the shittier the genetics, the worse off they'll be with a poor lifestyle.Sure, the brunette on the right is extremely fuckable for 51, but look at her physical genetics. She clearly can get away with SOME shit.Bottom line, the comparisons don't really prove anything.Cory
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