Plant based fats are bad? What about oils?

[Brandon D Christ]

So if you should avoid polyunsaturated fats Ie plant based fats nuts avocados etc. where should you be getting your fats from. I am starting to fall under the belief that allot of folks are just like eating a  few spoon fulls of coconut oil or a couple pads of butter with a protein source. Clearly your normal diets cant be so bland. Are you able to source hydrogenated lard or some thing. To much cheese makes me feel cardiovascularly depleted. I remember keifer even making a comment on chees throwing off the ratio of fats in his Q and A portion in the back of Carb Night. Clearly his warning of not getting to many saturated fats still holds true. So whats the %'s that you would be feeding your self for weight loss. I have been eating hand fulls of almonds for snacks for years.

Your concerns demonstrate my problem with the PUFA bashing.  There are PUFAs in everything, if you try to avoid PUFA like an Orthorexic, you end up with a very limited amount of food choices.Don't worry about PUFAs.  Just avoid the mass produced vegetable and seed oils.  The PUFA problem will take care of itself.

I agree with you to a point iBob, but considering as you say how much PUFA is actually out there, even eating what may appear to be healthier choices can still net you far too much. I wouldnt say you have to avoid them by being a complete head-case about it, but depending on what foods you are eating it may be better to be congnizant about your food choices and swing them in the direction of saturated over polyunsaturated fats. As an example, when talking about staples in ones diet, chicken would be a bad choice compared to Beef, Fatty fish would be a bad choice compared to lean fish. Once in a while wont kill you. But just like you can drink and do drugs and still lose fat and gain muscle theres no way you could convince me that that is part of an "Optimal" program.

I would agree with this if you can do this without turning it into an eating disorder like what a lot of people on this forum do.  If you do this and you refuse to eat any other type of fat besides grass fed beef, coconut oil, and butter, I'd say you have a problem.While I'd say excessive PUFA consumption is a problem, it's only one of many.  And I'd say it's pretty far down the list.  I think most people need to worry about controlling refined food consumption, stop eating so many carbs, and try to exercise a little.  That would solve pretty much all the obesity and lifestyle disease problems.

[Gl;itch.e]

So if you should avoid polyunsaturated fats Ie plant based fats nuts avocados etc. where should you be getting your fats from. I am starting to fall under the belief that allot of folks are just like eating a  few spoon fulls of coconut oil or a couple pads of butter with a protein source. Clearly your normal diets cant be so bland. Are you able to source hydrogenated lard or some thing. To much cheese makes me feel cardiovascularly depleted. I remember keifer even making a comment on chees throwing off the ratio of fats in his Q and A portion in the back of Carb Night. Clearly his warning of not getting to many saturated fats still holds true. So whats the %'s that you would be feeding your self for weight loss. I have been eating hand fulls of almonds for snacks for years.

Your concerns demonstrate my problem with the PUFA bashing.  There are PUFAs in everything, if you try to avoid PUFA like an Orthorexic, you end up with a very limited amount of food choices.Don't worry about PUFAs.  Just avoid the mass produced vegetable and seed oils.  The PUFA problem will take care of itself.

I agree with you to a point iBob, but considering as you say how much PUFA is actually out there, even eating what may appear to be healthier choices can still net you far too much. I wouldnt say you have to avoid them by being a complete head-case about it, but depending on what foods you are eating it may be better to be congnizant about your food choices and swing them in the direction of saturated over polyunsaturated fats. As an example, when talking about staples in ones diet, chicken would be a bad choice compared to Beef, Fatty fish would be a bad choice compared to lean fish. Once in a while wont kill you. But just like you can drink and do drugs and still lose fat and gain muscle theres no way you could convince me that that is part of an "Optimal" program.

I would agree with this if you can do this without turning it into an eating disorder like what a lot of people on this forum do.  If you do this and you refuse to eat any other type of fat besides grass fed beef, coconut oil, and butter, I'd say you have a problem.

Well just like you mentioned, you cant totally avoid it. Even coconut oil is like 2% poly. But its best to minimise as much as possible without going insane. I dont think its too hard provided you are a happy meat eater and can get enough fat through that, dairy, coconut oil. I've been quite successful in getting my intake right down without much in the way of restriction. I dont eat a lot of chicken anymore, when I do its skinless, I dont eat bacon (which is a admitedly a little harder) but if I can find a farmer who feeds his pigs fruits instead of soy, grains and corn etc I will be buying a metric shit ton of that! But I could cook the conventionally raised bacon in coconut oil and ditch the drippings I suppose if I really felt like it was worth the hassle. I've always been suspicious of vegetable oils so never ate much cooked in them. Not having nuts is a bit of a pain since they are basically a convienence food. But it just means planning out my meals in advance a little bit more. Since I only cook one meal for work in advance its pretty easy actually.

While I'd say excessive PUFA consumption is a problem, it's only one of many.  And I'd say it's pretty far down the list.  I think most people need to worry about controlling refined food consumption, stop eating so many carbs, and try to exercise a little.  That would solve pretty much all the obesity and lifestyle disease problems.

Personally Id put it pretty near the top. Id say it has a massive influence on various metabolic disorders and obesity. Farmers use PUFA rich foods as a quick means of fattening live stock. They tried coconut oil decades ago and found that it increased metabolic rate and leanness in the animals meaning they had to feed them even more to get them to gain weight. That's obviously more healthy for the animals but far too expensive.

[Gl;itch.e]

While everyone is crying about Fructose being the cause of obesity they are missing a larger source of calories in the form of PUFAs that has increased in the last few decades.http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/Fructose.html

"For over half a century, nutritional advice has been to limit our consumption of fat. The logic, reasonably enough, is that eating fat makes people fat. Furthermore, there is a good correlation between high-fat diets and heart disease. The food industry has done its share in trying to lower fat consumption, by developing low-fat and fat-free substitutes for higher-fat foods. Despite this, however, the USDA reports that from 1970 to 2003, Americans increased fat consumption by 63%, while also increasing grain consumption 43% and sugar consumption 19% -- as part of an overall increase of over 500 calories per day."

"In accord with dietary recommendations, Americans have cut back on the amount of animal fat we consume (saturated fat). We have increased the amount of poly-unsaturated fats (PUFAs), however. Most of the PUFAs are oils from plant seeds. Food processors seem to use oils from different plants more-or-less interchangeably, judging from the ingredient lists on a variety of products. They all have fairly similar profiles, however, being relatively rich in ω-6 fatty acids, and relatively poor in ω-3 fatty acids. These graphs would seem to absolve animal fat of blame for the obesity epidemic. Do they implicate plant oils?

So an increase in total fat consumption as well as a decrease in animal fats. And what animal fats are eaten are more adulterated and higher in PUFAs than 40-50 years ago. I think its safe to say that these cheap fats are a large part of the problems seen today. Certainly larger than Fructose and Sugar has been made to seem.

[Sakecat]

I disagree with that I think sugar lowering lepton sensitivity and making people more hungry all the time has allot worse effect. For gods sake I had to add 2 carbs to my count today because the Costco smoked salmon I bought had brown sugar in it WTF.  Ultimately though it is splitting hairs. It all contributes. I due share your frustration though with fats and the quality of meats I ate all grass fed last week and I surely felt the difference how ever it is financially impractical for me to  eat like that all the time. Hoping that will change soon though. 

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