- This topic has 3 voices and 12 replies.
-
Posts
-
I'm doing a pull/push split. I use my kind of made up version of 5-3-1.5 (warm up) 50%3 75%1 100%My goals are:To be able to do 10 pull-ups & deadlift 100kg, and to be generally strong and well balanced.
At the end of both of these workouts I didn't feel like I'd worked myself hard enough so just ended up going round the gym doing all the extra push (or pull) exercises I could think to do.
Still a newbie to CNS but this I can do.Some questions:How many times a week are you doing it? 10 pullups - how many are you doing now?100 kg DL - what are you at now? How are you progressing from week to week on your DL? Are you adding weight on feel, progressing 2.5kg every week or what? What is your rep range other than your DL? The pictures only show sets not how many reps you are shooting for. Suggestions:1. 10 minutes - What this means is give your main workout all you've got and then after that is complete give yourself about 10 minutes to hit up the muscles like arms, shoulders or glutes.one example is this shoulder workout by Joe Defranco - done in triset fashion with 1 minute rest at the end of each circuit - shoot for 8-12 rep per exercise3 total circuitsseated plate raise - 25# plateseated DB lateral raise -(he recommends 20 to 25 pounds but scale as needed)seated clean and 1/2 press
Still a newbie to CNS but this I can do.-- Wohoo! 🙂 thank you!Some questions:How many times a week are you doing it? -- 3-410 pullups - how many are you doing now?-- 1 x5100 kg DL - what are you at now? -- 80kg est 2RM (have done 80kg for 1r)How are you progressing from week to week on your DL? Are you adding weight on feel, progressing 2.5kg every week or what? -- It's really random! Some days 60 kg seems super hard to me. But trying to add 2.5kg each time. What is your rep range other than your DL? The pictures only show sets not how many reps you are shooting for. -- 5/3/1 in reps, previously I have done 5x5... Again, it's been a bit random lately depending on whether I'm trying to deplete glycogen (mega volume) or translocate glut4 (5/3/1).Suggestions:1. 10 minutes - What this means is give your main workout all you've got and then after that is complete give yourself about 10 minutes to hit up the muscles like arms, shoulders or glutes.one example is this shoulder workout by Joe Defranco - done in triset fashion with 1 minute rest at the end of each circuit - shoot for 8-12 rep per exercise3 total circuitsseated plate raise - 25# plateseated DB lateral raise -(he recommends 20 to 25 pounds but scale as needed)seated clean and 1/2 press-- I use 3 min rest after every set because apparently this helps women burn more fat during the workout. I used to use circuits, but I'm not sure if Kiefer recommends them.
1. Good to hear. 2. Pullups - Does that mean you can do 1 set of 5 or does that mean you do 5 sets of 1? 3. DL recommendations:-Add more warmup sets, not only is this good practice of proper DL'ing it also lets you add some low intensity volume for the movement-treat these sets like you would treat your max rep set, good start position, good hip extension...etc-your DL warmup sets might look something like this (sorry i'm not too savvy on the kg's) I'm guessing at what plates you guys have) bar x 5, 30kg x 3, 40kg x 1, 50 x 1 then the work sets 60kg x 5, 70 kg x 3, 82.5kg x 1...etc-Trying to add 2.5 kgs every session is a great goal for a beginning trainee but soon they will hit a plateau (thus all the different programs out there 5/3/1 Westside...etc) so just keep that in mind.4. The effort thing you are talking about is normal some days where the light weights seem to weigh a ton and other days where the weights seem to fly off the floor.5. I meant the rep ranges in all the other exercises, unless you mean you do th 5/3/1 reps in all other exercises too?6. The 10 minute thing was just because you said at the end of your workout you still felt like you had a lot left in the tank.
I'm going to go ahead and say that pulling a true max deadlift will not allow you to do ANYTHING afterwards. Also, working with percentages if you're not really sure of your max can be frustrating and pointless. I'd set up a push pull strength program maybe like thisDay 1 pullDeadlift up to a heavy triple3-4 assistance exercises totaling 10-12 setsDay 2 pushBench press up to a heavy triplePush assistance workDay 3 pullWeighted pull ups to a heavy triplePull Assistance workDay 4 pushSquat up to a heavy triplePush assistance workI'd do this 3 days a week and just rotate between the 4 days. It sort of has the template of 5/3/1 but doesn't work in percentages and has pull ups as a main lift. Just my opinion.
For pull-ups I'd go to Harry Selkow of EliteFTS to program them for you. The guy is a genius.Just make sure you send him a question on the Q&A with the answers to the following questions:Goal? Program? Years Training?Age?Sports?Limitations?Bodyweight and height ?Pull ups or chin ups?Current Chin ups?8 weeks to Monster Shoulders? * 8 Weeks to Monster Shoulders is this program (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/8_weeks_to_monster_shoulders)As for the deadlifts I wouldn't work up to a top single each session. Keep the top set somewhere in the three to five range and make sure each rep is explosive as possible.
1. Good to hear. 2. Pullups - Does that mean you can do 1 set of 5 or does that mean you do 5 sets of 1? -- 5 sets of 1 rep3. DL recommendations:-Add more warmup sets, not only is this good practice of proper DL'ing it also lets you add some low intensity volume for the movement-treat these sets like you would treat your max rep set, good start position, good hip extension...etc-your DL warmup sets might look something like this (sorry i'm not too savvy on the kg's) I'm guessing at what plates you guys have) bar x 5, 30kg x 3, 40kg x 1, 50 x 1 then the work sets 60kg x 5, 70 kg x 3, 82.5kg x 1...etc-- thank you-Trying to add 2.5 kgs every session is a great goal for a beginning trainee but soon they will hit a plateau (thus all the different programs out there 5/3/1 Westside...etc) so just keep that in mind.4. The effort thing you are talking about is normal some days where the light weights seem to weigh a ton and other days where the weights seem to fly off the floor.5. I meant the rep ranges in all the other exercises, unless you mean you do th 5/3/1 reps in all other exercises too?Yep! Pretty much!6. The 10 minute thing was just because you said at the end of your workout you still felt like you had a lot left in the tank.
So for pullups, there are a bunch of ways to go about upping them from 1 to 10 no 1 definite way, it is a lot more dependent on what you are willing to put in to get there. 1. Greasing the groove meaning doing them everyday many times a day, but this isn't practical for everyone but you dont go until burnout, meaning if my max was 10 right now I'd do sets of 5 or less several times a day, for someone that is at 1 it's a little tougher since you are basically maxing out every single time but you get the gist.2. Using negatives and jumping pullups to help supplement your pullup training until you max number goes up a bit. One example:pull day - each pullup set - do 1 regular pullup, then do 3 jumping pullups with a 5 second negative for a total of 4 sets On you non pullup day work some pullup accessory like flexed arm hang or "pullup shrugs" 3. Adding more volume per session - this one I'm leary for people in the 0-2 pullups category because you are basically doing a 1 rep max every time you do a pullup so doing 10 sets of a 1 rep max may not be great, you can spread the pullups out through out your training session, like do 1 before you deadlift, do another after you deadlift, do some before your first pulling exercise...etc For someone in the 3-6 pullup range this is a bit easier to handle because you would take your max number divide by 2 and do 10 sets of that, so if I could only do 6 right now I would do 10 sets of 3Hopefully I didn't confuse you too much with all that stuff up there please let me know if you want clarification.In regards to your rep scheme, are you absolutely married to the 5/3/1 rep scheme for everything else? I would personally suggest for your other exercises to opt for a higher repition and higher intensity. Main "strength" oriented lifts 6-8 reps shooting for 3-5 sets, and higher reps on the others. So using your push workout as an example: (totally made these numbers up, really just so you get the gist of what i'm trying to convey)Goblet squats - bw warmup x 8, 10 pounds x 5, 15 pounds x 3, then do your 5/3/1 like 30 x 5, 40 x 3, 50 x 1explosive pushups - 5 setssplit squat - 3 sets of 8 per leg where your load should be heavy for 8 but not spleen crushingdips - 1 set max repsside lunge - 3 sets of 10-12 where load should be heavy for 12alternating OH press - 4 sets of 6 where walking reverse lunge - 1 set for distance Using your pull workout:Deadlift - warmup + 5/3/1 as noted in other postspullups - 4 sets of 1 rep + jumping pullups and negatives1-arm row - 3 sets of 10face pull - 3 sets of 12-15wood chop - 3 sets of 10-12cable pullovers - 3 sets of 12 (I'm guessing you are doign this like a DB pullover but with the cable machine?)Basic premise:main strength lift 5/3/1accessory strength lift - 6 to 8 rep range of 3 to 4 setsall others - 10+ rep range 3 sets
Thank you Backlash 🙂 I am just a bit scared of working in the 8+ rep range because I'm not going for hypertrophy.For me, it's pure strength & power.I get that I need to do assistance exercises . . . but do they need to be 8+ reps?Yep, the cable pullover kinda looks like a DB lat pullover, but somehow seems to be mainly working my triceps 🙂 I just like it because it mimics throwing a ball, or an axe.Oh, also, the jumping pullups thing isn't a problem because I use resistance bands . . . or at least I used to until I found they were getting too easy in the 5 rep range . . . But I have an even lower band than that one I was using, so I can use that to do like 3 reps or something.
For pull-ups I'd go to Harry Selkow of EliteFTS to program them for you. The guy is a genius.Just make sure you send him a question on the Q&A with the answers to the following questions:Goal? Program? Years Training?Age?Sports?Limitations?Bodyweight and height ?Pull ups or chin ups?Current Chin ups?8 weeks to Monster Shoulders? * 8 Weeks to Monster Shoulders is this program (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/8_weeks_to_monster_shoulders)Are you suggesting I hire this guy to design a pull-up program for me? Surely it can't be that complicated 😮 As for the deadlifts I wouldn't work up to a top single each session. Keep the top set somewhere in the three to five range and make sure each rep is explosive as possible.Okay. I'm curious why everyone seems to be anti 1RM?
I'm going to go ahead and say that pulling a true max deadlift will not allow you to do ANYTHING afterwards. Hmm. Well, I count a 1RM as a DL I can just about do without breaking form. And I have done these in the past and continued to workout afterward.Also, working with percentages if you're not really sure of your max can be frustrating and pointless. Well, it's just an estimate.I'd set up a push pull strength program maybe like thisDay 1 pullDeadlift up to a heavy tripleSounds fine3-4 assistance exercises totaling 10-12 setsDo I really have to work in hypertrophy ranges for assistance exercises? :- Day 2 pushBench press up to a heavy tripleI'd rather do pushups. It work my core more (like plank).Push assistance workDay 3 pullWeighted pull ups to a heavy tripleI can only do one body weight pullup so far 😉 But okay, I can use a band to get me to threePull Assistance workDay 4 pushSquat up to a heavy triplePush assistance workI'd do this 3 days a week and just rotate between the 4 days. It sort of has the template of 5/3/1 but doesn't work in percentages and has pull ups as a main lift. Just my opinion.
Thank you. Food for thought 🙂
Are you suggesting I hire this guy to design a pull-up program for me? Surely it can't be that complicated 😮 Okay. I'm curious why everyone seems to be anti 1RM?
1) No need to "hire" him. You just send him a question on the EFS Q&A and he programs them for you for free. It's mostly just about manipulating volume, but this guy has helped many, many people program pull-ups. It also gives you one less thing to think about2) I've always had more success building my deadlift with reps so that's usually what I recommend. It helps you get some practice with your form and also helps build confidence in the lift. No need to go super high with the reps. I would just stick with 2, 3 and 5 rep sets. One way you could do it is progress with 5s until you're unable to complete 5 reps at the weight (moving up 5lbs or 2.5kgs per workout), then move on to triples until you can't do three, then move on to doubles. There's a million ways to do it, but I always found reps (and I often go to 10 on my top sets) works best. Main thing is finding what suits you best.*Just to qualify, I've deadlifted 190kgs at 66kgs in competition.
Thank you Backlash 🙂 I am just a bit scared of working in the 8+ rep range because I'm not going for hypertrophy.For me, it's pure strength & power.I get that I need to do assistance exercises . . . but do they need to be 8+ reps?Yep, the cable pullover kinda looks like a DB lat pullover, but somehow seems to be mainly working my triceps 🙂 I just like it because it mimics throwing a ball, or an axe.Oh, also, the jumping pullups thing isn't a problem because I use resistance bands . . . or at least I used to until I found they were getting too easy in the 5 rep range . . . But I have an even lower band than that one I was using, so I can use that to do like 3 reps or something.
No your main assistance can be lower but i'd say no less than 5 reps and then at least 4-5 sets so you'd be working at a higher intensity. Take a look at the Prilepin chart if you really want to dig into the whole reps/ sets/percentages thing http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/05/prilepins-chart/All the "misc" exercises you are trying to work the muscles like face pulls, wood chops, cable pullover....etc I would still suggest going for higher repetetions like 10+In regards to the cable pullover try to pay attention to where your elbows are piointing when you hold the cable bar, I've had that in the past as well where I felt like the pullover was really burning my triceps. I had stopped doing them for a few years after tweaking my neck pretty hard trying to throw up some heavy DB in the last year or so I have reintroduced them and they "feel" better now. For a great pullover article check this outhttp://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/pullovers_bodybuildings_most_controversial_exerciseAny other questions let me know.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.