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I'm going to take a bit of a middle ground here.With proper supplementation, plenty of fat and protein, and heavy training I think you could grow muscle while being ketogenic, but I agree with Peter in that in order to grow significant amounts of muscle you need some carbs. Glycogen obviously plays a part in muscle growth. If you are trying to be stupid big then you are going to need more building blocks in general. I think carbs are less important for getting strong. They can help but with the "hulk effect" from being ULC can provide huge strength, I just managed to rep out on my old max bench at 7 days ULC. (On keifers Bench program for round 2)
Ok taken a listen. p shannon. What point are you getting at?
I don't know if you listened to the whole thing. Your nutrition has to match your training. To properly grow muscle and maintain it you can not be in a ketogenic state. Meadows and Kiefer both agree on this point multiple times through out the whole podcast. If your trying to gain muscle then why would you do it in the most inefficient way, by stripping people of the essential building block to do so. I'm sure there are genetically gifted people that can achieve this muscle growth, but it still doesn't work for the majority of people. I just find it very ironic, that someone like Meadows who writes diets for very famous people, disagrees with you about growing muscle while on a ketogenic diet, and says its impossible. I'm not trying to start shit, but your being HIGHLY condescending.
Right, I wouldn't recommend CNS for muscle gaining, unless the person was really obese. I think most people won't get noticeable gains, but some of the more gifted people might experience some mass gains.
I'm going to take a bit of a middle ground here.With proper supplementation, plenty of fat and protein, and heavy training I think you could grow muscle while being ketogenic, but I agree with Peter in that in order to grow significant amounts of muscle you need some carbs. Glycogen obviously plays a part in muscle growth. If you are trying to be stupid big then you are going to need more building blocks in general. I think carbs are less important for getting strong. They can help but with the "hulk effect" from being ULC can provide huge strength, I just managed to rep out on my old max bench at 7 days ULC. (On keifers Bench program for round 2)
Agreed.
Ok taken a listen. p shannon. What point are you getting at?
I don't know if you listened to the whole thing. Your nutrition has to match your training. To properly grow muscle and maintain it you can not be in a ketogenic state. Meadows and Kiefer both agree on this point multiple times through out the whole podcast. If your trying to gain muscle then why would you do it in the most inefficient way, by stripping people of the essential building block to do so. I'm sure there are genetically gifted people that can achieve this muscle growth, but it still doesn't work for the majority of people. I just find it very ironic, that someone like Meadows who writes diets for very famous people, disagrees with you about growing muscle while on a ketogenic diet, and says its impossible. I'm not trying to start shit, but your being HIGHLY condescending.
Right, I wouldn't recommend CNS for muscle gaining, unless the person was really obese. I think most people won't get noticeable gains, but some of the more gifted people might experience some mass gains.
Agreed. .....And I'm out
Ignorant response. I would like to hear your response to how its possible?Tevor, I agree with the strength.
Basically to build explosiveness as you get fatiguedSent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
I have also heard that developing peak power is not the same as developing power output as you fatigue.
Pshannon. In all seriousness if I'm coming across as condescending I shouldn't post at all. That's why I'm out.I won't go into my reasoning in detail for that reason. I will say that looking into ketone stimulation of insulin, mechanical stress related Glut4 translocation. Leucine and amino acid stimulation of mtor and the effects of insulin + mechanical stress on glut4 translocation would give you an idea of where I am coming from. For the record. I wasn't saying a huge amount of muscle can be built. I'm say my guys grew a little during contest prep. Sorry for the derail everyone. I'm actually going to stick to what I said and not post in here again now.
Pshannon. In all seriousness if I'm coming across as condescending I shouldn't post at all. That's why I'm out.I won't go into my reasoning in detail for that reason. I will say that looking into ketone stimulation of insulin, mechanical stress related Glut4 translocation. Leucine and amino acid stimulation of mtor and the effects of insulin + mechanical stress on glut4 translocation would give you an idea of where I am coming from. For the record. I wasn't saying a huge amount of muscle can be built. I'm say my guys grew a little during contest prep. Sorry for the derail everyone. I'm actually going to stick to what I said and not post in here again now.
No man. All discussion on the topic is relevant. This thread is still basically going in the right direction.RB
Pshannon. In all seriousness if I'm coming across as condescending I shouldn't post at all. That's why I'm out.I won't go into my reasoning in detail for that reason. I will say that looking into ketone stimulation of insulin, mechanical stress related Glut4 translocation. Leucine and amino acid stimulation of mtor and the effects of insulin + mechanical stress on glut4 translocation would give you an idea of where I am coming from. For the record. I wasn't saying a huge amount of muscle can be built. I'm say my guys grew a little during contest prep. Sorry for the derail everyone. I'm actually going to stick to what I said and not post in here again now.
No man. All discussion on the topic is relevant. This thread is still basically going in the right direction.RB
x2 Thicker skins allround people. This is an interesting topic.
Pshannon. In all seriousness if I'm coming across as condescending I shouldn't post at all. That's why I'm out.I won't go into my reasoning in detail for that reason. I will say that looking into ketone stimulation of insulin, mechanical stress related Glut4 translocation. Leucine and amino acid stimulation of mtor and the effects of insulin + mechanical stress on glut4 translocation would give you an idea of where I am coming from. For the record. I wasn't saying a huge amount of muscle can be built. I'm say my guys grew a little during contest prep. Sorry for the derail everyone. I'm actually going to stick to what I said and not post in here again now.
No man. All discussion on the topic is relevant. This thread is still basically going in the right direction.RB
x2 Thicker skins allround people. This is an interesting topic.
x3Just because I hate dogma.
You can grow a lot on lower reps if you don't rest a lot, just saying. I made my best gains not working in that 6-12 range that is often talked about. I just didn't take a couple minutes of rest in between triples, doubles or singles. If you don't want too much hypertrophy, you keep the reps low AND the rest time long.
Please take a look at my new PRs: http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=5875.msg73379#msg73379
Well-done! Refreshing to see ladies who are not afraid to pursue heavier weights, also I rarely see ladies doing unassisted chin-ups which probably compliment your climbing too. I hardly see you ending up looking like she-hulk in that rep range or without serious gear, but that's another story. Now you have to tell all the women you see to get off the elliptical and do what you're doing.
Thanks SM 🙂 No one believes me when I tell them I got my abs from climbing and deadlifts!When I'm in the gym post CN and my muscles are pumped I do look pretty 'athletic'.
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