Protein Powder Confusion

[Sherylea Hurst]

I am very confused about protein supplementation.  I just read the protein 2.0 article Keifer wrote where he is talking about the the different types of proteins and when to use them.  There are 2 protein blends he is recommending…the first a blend of whey isolate, whey hydrolysate, casein and casein hydrolysate with an added 5 grams leucine.  It states that this blend should be taken in 20-40 gram servings and upon waking and every 2-3 hours onward…..this is highly confusing as I have posted about using a protein supplement mid day and because of insulin spiking have been told NOT TO DO THIS??? The second blend he speaks about is whey isolate and whey hydrolysate and that is to be taken with leucine post workout.  HELP?? The more I read the more confused I am becoming.  I actually ordered this first blend from protein factory and I have been taking it with leucine post workout….mistake?  Thank you 🙂

[Trevor G Fullbright]

This is an old post.To keep it simple, just use protein powders PWO.A mix of hydrolysates (casein and/or whey), some isolate, and 5g of leucine is awesome, but simply an isolate would be okay.

[Richard Schmitt]

This is an old post.To keep it simple, just use protein powders PWO.A mix of hydrolysates (casein and/or whey), some isolate, and 5g of leucine is awesome, but simply an isolate would be okay.

+1 Simple is always better.

[Sveta1017]

I am very confused about protein supplementation.  I just read the protein 2.0 article Keifer wrote where he is talking about the the different types of proteins and when to use them.  There are 2 protein blends he is recommending...the first a blend of whey isolate, whey hydrolysate, casein and casein hydrolysate with an added 5 grams leucine.  It states that this blend should be taken in 20-40 gram servings and upon waking and every 2-3 hours onward.....this is highly confusing as I have posted about using a protein supplement mid day and because of insulin spiking have been told NOT TO DO THIS??? The second blend he speaks about is whey isolate and whey hydrolysate and that is to be taken with leucine post workout.  HELP?? The more I read the more confused I am becoming.  I actually ordered this first blend from protein factory and I have been taking it with leucine post workout....mistake?  Thank you 🙂

What are you referencing that says to consume protein powder every 2-3hours? That seems a bit excessive, and is probably dependent on the frequency and intensity to which you train. Also, he may have been talking about dudes! I have a whey isolate/casein/hydrosolate mix that I will take in AM or not near a workout and the other one I use is a blend of whey isolate/hydrosolate plus leucine I got from GNC that I use only after workout. I reserve the leucine blend for post workout because it tends to spike insulin a little but that is okay because post workout your insulin is already spiked from the workout. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[cloudybrain]

I reserve the leucine blend for post workout because it tends to spike insulin a little but that is okay because post workout your insulin is already spiked from the workout.

Not sure if that's accurate there. I haven't seen any articles or studies that insulin is spiked from the workout and it doesn't make sense to me that it would. It does make sense the insulin would decrease during your workout, and it increases insulin sensitivity as well. Insulin is responsive to what you digest, it's the driving force of sending nutrients throughout your body (ie. you cell, tissue, organs, etc). Everything you eat increases your insulin at some point (even fats, but that's minuscule), you want to focus on eating foods that causes the minimum spikes. When your insulin increases and is high, you stop burning fat, plain and simple. During carb nite, when your insulin is peaked due to your consumption of high sugar foods, your body's metabolism speeds up trying to burn off all those carbs, and as your are burning them up, your metabolism will continously be in overdrive for the next few days as your depleted the glucose, your body will start turning to fat as the alternative source.Btw, drink of water... lots of water.. water water water.. with a pinch of salt 🙂Anyways, yeh your body is basically starving for nutrients after you work out. Whey gives what you need quickly by driving up your insulin and providing those amino acids throughout your body replenishing your muscle glycogen; but in order for this to happen, your body stops burning fat. Your glucogon levels are still low since you haven't took in any sugars. But it's always a good idea to consume meats for the 24-hr protein synthesis (keifers own words - which I agree since I have read a few studies supporting this).To give you more of a boost that would help rebuild and preserve muscles from your workout - that's where carb-backloading comes in as it makes very good use of carbs and protein to replenish your muscle glycogen.

[Sveta1017]

I reserve the leucine blend for post workout because it tends to spike insulin a little but that is okay because post workout your insulin is already spiked from the workout.

Not sure if that's accurate there. I haven't seen any articles or studies that insulin is spiked from the workout and it doesn't make sense to me that it would. It does make sense the insulin would decrease during your workout, and it increases insulin sensitivity as well. Insulin is responsive to what you digest, it's the driving force of sending nutrients throughout your body (ie. you cell, tissue, organs, etc). Everything you eat increases your insulin at some point (even fats, but that's minuscule), you want to focus on eating foods that causes the minimum spikes. When your insulin increases and is high, you stop burning fat, plain and simple. During carb nite, when your insulin is peaked due to your consumption of high sugar foods, your body's metabolism speeds up trying to burn off all those carbs, and as your are burning them up, your metabolism will continously be in overdrive for the next few days as your depleted the glucose, your body will start turning to fat as the alternative source.Btw, drink of water... lots of water.. water water water.. with a pinch of salt 🙂Anyways, yeh your body is basically starving for nutrients after you work out. Whey gives what you need quickly by driving up your insulin and providing those amino acids throughout your body replenishing your muscle glycogen; but in order for this to happen, your body stops burning fat. Your glucogon levels are still low since you haven't took in any sugars. But it's always a good idea to consume meats for the 24-hr protein synthesis (keifers own words - which I agree since I have read a few studies supporting this).To give you more of a boost that would help rebuild and preserve muscles from your workout - that's where carb-backloading comes in as it makes very good use of carbs and protein to replenish your muscle glycogen.

I didn't do the research, but I'm pretty sure kiefer did (about insulin being raised slightly after a workout and how leucine works with that). I didn't pull that out of thin air. I read it in CBL or heard it in one of his podcasts.

[cloudybrain]

I didn't do the research, but I'm pretty sure kiefer did (about insulin being raised slightly after a workout and how leucine works with that). I didn't pull that out of thin air. I read it in CBL or heard it in one of his podcasts.

I understand, but I'm still not so sure about this, I do have to look at the podcast. It's my nature to second guess everything I read and hear; so I don't mean to sound hard headed about it. Plus I don't think it really matters if we think insulin is raised during the workout or not, because the diet is still forcing us to live healthy and doing a lot of implicit regulations without us knowing the reasons behind them.Anyways:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11473046This study states that insulin secretion is actually reduced during workout. What does happen, however, is that your insulin becomes more sensitive and your glucagon levels actually rise during the workout. The beauty of the whole thing is that your insulin doesn't raise above what you want it to be since your blood sugar is below normal levels. So you'll always remain 'low' as far as the diet is concerned (which is good). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14747278This study states that glucose was being produced on the account of raised levels of glucagon and a insulin receptor called GLUT4 is produced. GLUT4 is basically an insulin-regulated protein that helps transports glucose to cells. "Under conditions of low insulin, GLUT4 is sequestered in intracellular vesicles in muscle and fat cell (from wikipedia on GLUT4)." In other words, only when insulin is applied and raised during the abundance of GLUT4 will the insulin be able to efficiently transport large amounts of energy throughout your body (cells, muscles, etc). So this helps with the insulin sensitivity aspect of the diet. But still, no insulin being raised during the workout, just the preparations.During a low carb diet, your glucogon horomone is being extremely active. It signals the liver to produce glucose from the liver stores (glycogen). Cortisol also has a role by sending amino acids from your muscles to your liver, which glucogon uses to convert into glucose. This happens when you have low sugar in the body, it's a way of regulating itself. So while you work you, you are generating more glucose from the liver to supply the quick bursts of energy whenever you perform a heavy lift. So essentially glucagon (the mirror opposite of insulin) is raised during your workout.The magic happens when these two hormones: epinephrine and growth hormone (GH) are produced. These hormones are used to help oxidize fatty acids during your workout, so that too much glucose isn't metabolized and remains at a stable level..The logic here is that when you workout, you are constantly using glucose for quick bursts of energy, your glucagon is raised to help bring back the sugar in the blood to normal levels by using glucose stored in the liver. When the glucose is being maintained by the glucagon, the other hormones mentioned epinephrine and GH is raised to make fatty acids as the new source of energy. Insulin is not raised because you are always below the normal amount of sugar in the blood, it is glucagon is doing the balancing work to counteract the loss of glucose in your workout to raise it back up to normal levels.

[Sveta1017]

I didn't do the research, but I'm pretty sure kiefer did (about insulin being raised slightly after a workout and how leucine works with that). I didn't pull that out of thin air. I read it in CBL or heard it in one of his podcasts.

I understand, but I'm still not so sure about this, I do have to look at the podcast. It's my nature to second guess everything I read and hear; so I don't mean to sound hard headed about it. Plus I don't think it really matters if we think insulin is raised during the workout or not, because the diet is still forcing us to live healthy and doing a lot of implicit regulations without us knowing the reasons behind them.Anyways:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11473046This study states that insulin secretion is actually reduced during workout. What does happen, however, is that your insulin becomes more sensitive and your glucagon levels actually rise during the workout. The beauty of the whole thing is that your insulin doesn't raise above what you want it to be since your blood sugar is below normal levels. So you'll always remain 'low' as far as the diet is concerned (which is good). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14747278This study states that glucose was being produced on the account of raised levels of glucagon and a insulin receptor called GLUT4 is produced. GLUT4 is basically an insulin-regulated protein that helps transports glucose to cells. "Under conditions of low insulin, GLUT4 is sequestered in intracellular vesicles in muscle and fat cell (from wikipedia on GLUT4)." In other words, only when insulin is applied and raised during the abundance of GLUT4 will the insulin be able to efficiently transport large amounts of energy throughout your body (cells, muscles, etc). So this helps with the insulin sensitivity aspect of the diet. But still, no insulin being raised during the workout, just the preparations.During a low carb diet, your glucogon horomone is being extremely active. It signals the liver to produce glucose from the liver stores (glycogen). Cortisol also has a role by sending amino acids from your muscles to your liver, which glucogon uses to convert into glucose. This happens when you have low sugar in the body, it's a way of regulating itself. So while you work you, you are generating more glucose from the liver to supply the quick bursts of energy whenever you perform a heavy lift. So essentially glucagon (the mirror opposite of insulin) is raised during your workout.The magic happens when these two hormones: epinephrine and growth hormone (GH) are produced. These hormones are used to help oxidize fatty acids during your workout, so that too much glucose isn't metabolized and remains at a stable level..The logic here is that when you workout, you are constantly using glucose for quick bursts of energy, your glucagon is raised to help bring back the sugar in the blood to normal levels by using glucose stored in the liver. When the glucose is being maintained by the glucagon, the other hormones mentioned epinephrine and GH is raised to make fatty acids as the new source of energy. Insulin is not raised because you are always below the normal amount of sugar in the blood, it is glucagon is doing the balancing work to counteract the loss of glucose in your workout to raise it back up to normal levels.

Very interesting! I'm amazed you had the time to research that. 🙂Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

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