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Ive been reading up on ketosis, and what I've been finding is that it appears to be best to keep fat high, protein very moderate. Like maybe 75% of LBM. Supposedly if there is too much protein in diet, then our bodies will pull energy from the glycogen from the protein (I'm sure I'm phrasing this wrong) vs from fat stores. I read somewhere too to hit 75% on non workout days in protein of LBM, and 100% on workout days. Any thoughts? I guess if our macros are 70% fat, 28% protein, 2% carbs, this is sort of in line. But I have been aiming for closer to bw, and I guess thats way too much. But if I attempt the protein set up above, calories will drop. Unless I suck down fat all day!! I'm still trying to optimize this CNS, cause honestly I have no idea what else to do. I really enjoy the carb nite, which is why I'm sticking with it. But I'd love to see some scale loss. I know many of us, especially other women, are in the same boat as me. currently I am 170. My 6'4" husband is 202. I need to weigh less than my 6'4" husband. Though are frames are very different...I'm larger bones, him smaller. But still...I lost sleep last night when he told me was down to 202. He does not lift weights...he's into endurance stuff. And eating like crap, but exercising more is his approach. I've been stuck at this weight since APRIL! April!!!! I'm ready to give up. I can't figure out how to copy and paste links using iPad, but a couple of the sites I got info from are:http://Www.reddit.com/r/keto/A lot of info above comes from Phinney and Volek, and Lyle McD. A lot of this appears to call for a deficit. CNS and CBL were both listed as diets on that site.So, thoughts?
Some guy named Jimmy Moore haspd a bit on his site about using a blood ketone meter to optimize his ketosis…which was figuring out protein amount. http://Www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I thought this wasn't a deficit diet? That puts me at about 1500 a day. A number that also stalls any weight loss. But maybe eating at 2000 is maintenance for me….and maybe eating at that amount for a while will allow me to drop down? Except I thought this wasn't deficit. So frustrating. This year I've eaten at 1300, 1500, 1800, 2000....if only I could photosynthesize.
All diets require a deficit. The claim that you can eat however much you want on this diet is a half truth. People in ketosis naturally seem to have decreased appetite. I've never heard of someone eating maintenance and losing weight, and I've never seen anyone on this site prove that it is the case. Ketosis is inefficient, but not by a significant amount. Especially when protein isn't overly dominant. So therefore, it makes sense to continue to eat in a deficit. Also, maintenance means that you are accounting for the calories lost via TEF and Ketone formation. Hell, we are eating the same amount, except I'm 18, taller, and fourty pounds heavier.
A 70% fat 30% protein diet is great for our purposes. We need the extra protein to assist in maintaining muscle mass. Now the medical ketogenic diet is a whole other issue.
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I have a question about this: if it's the deficit that matters, and not the macs so much, what is the benefit to following CNS? Also, on carb nites, I'd bet that just about everyone eats over maintenance...at least the females, I'd guess. How could you not with 300+ grams of carbs??
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I have a question about this: if it's the deficit that matters, and not the macs so much, what is the benefit to following CNS? Also, on carb nites, I'd bet that just about everyone eats over maintenance...at least the females, I'd guess. How could you not with 300+ grams of carbs??
Decreased hunger, increased mental sharpness, possible recomp, and maintenance of muscle mass/performance levels. But these are advantages of any CKD set up. CKD's have their advantages, but any smart diet setup can do all of this besides maybe recomp. It depends on the context, training, dieting history, reaction to macronutrients/ ect of any given individual. Of course you eat of maintenance, for one day. That's not going to do much. Most people also train, so in a surplus of carbs, those carbs are going to be used to refill glycogen, and if the right training is followed, super compensation can occur. That's why most people don't gain fat on the actual CN. It also allows for better adherence if you can tell someone they can eat whatever they want.
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I have a question about this: if it's the deficit that matters, and not the macs so much, what is the benefit to following CNS? Also, on carb nites, I'd bet that just about everyone eats over maintenance...at least the females, I'd guess. How could you not with 300+ grams of carbs??
Here is the deal with calorie deficits: if enough energy is available from the food we eat, the body will not use it's body fat stores. This means on the differential level, Zach is correct, you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. However, when most people say "calorie deficit" they are generally referring to a daily calorie deficit. On CNS, you do not have to be in an integral daily calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. You will be in a calorie deficit at certrain points in the day (when you are sleeping and in the morning when we skip breakfast) but you can actually eat much more than you need to for the day and still lose bodyfat. This is possible because you won't be storing bodyfat due to absence of insulin. It is also important to realize that energy has to be converted, mechanically stored, and the simply fact that the more food you eat, the less efficient your body becomes.If you did control for calories and other factors, a ketogenic diet (with refeeds) will outperform a reduced calorie diet with carbohydrates. Why? The absence of insulin.
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I have a question about this: if it's the deficit that matters, and not the macs so much, what is the benefit to following CNS? Also, on carb nites, I'd bet that just about everyone eats over maintenance...at least the females, I'd guess. How could you not with 300+ grams of carbs??
Here is the deal with calorie deficits: if enough energy is available from the food we eat, the body will not use it's body fat stores. This means on the differential level, Zach is correct, you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. However, when most people say "calorie deficit" they are generally referring to a daily calorie deficit. On CNS, you do not have to be in an integral daily calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. You will be in a calorie deficit at certrain points in the day (when you are sleeping and in the morning when we skip breakfast) but you can actually eat much more than you need to for the day and still lose bodyfat. This is possible because you won't be storing bodyfat due to absence of insulin. It is also important to realize that energy has to be converted, mechanically stored, and the simply fact that the more food you eat, the less efficient your body becomes.If you did control for calories and other factors, a ketogenic diet (with refeeds) will outperform a reduced calorie diet with carbohydrates. Why? The absence of insulin.
That's not entirely true though. Although Insulin is one way that the body stores fat, its not the only way. Everyone here seems to ignore the Acylation Stimulating Protein (ASP) Pathway of fat storage. It does not need insulin to store fat, and will do so on it's own.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10355026
Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is an adipocyte-derived protein which has potent anabolic effects on human adipose tissue for both glucose and free fatty acid (FFA) storage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21348923
Growing evidence suggests that ASP may significantly contribute to subcutaneous fat storage in females. In vitro, ASP stimulated triglyceride synthesis to a larger extent in subcutaneous compared with omental adipocytes.
Also, Hormone Sensitive Lipase can be suppressed by fat intake, so then how are we extracting and burning fat from the cells?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9950782?ordinalpos=368&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
If you are not in a deficit you are not going to lose weight. The total macronutrient split doesnt matter if that first rule is not followed. Hence why people are saying to eat your lbm in protein and fat. that will most likely put most people into a deficit. Ignore R/keto. You need 1g of protein per pound LBM and the rest of your calories should be fat.
I have a question about this: if it's the deficit that matters, and not the macs so much, what is the benefit to following CNS? Also, on carb nites, I'd bet that just about everyone eats over maintenance...at least the females, I'd guess. How could you not with 300+ grams of carbs??
Here is the deal with calorie deficits: if enough energy is available from the food we eat, the body will not use it's body fat stores. This means on the differential level, Zach is correct, you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. However, when most people say "calorie deficit" they are generally referring to a daily calorie deficit. On CNS, you do not have to be in an integral daily calorie deficit to lose bodyfat. You will be in a calorie deficit at certrain points in the day (when you are sleeping and in the morning when we skip breakfast) but you can actually eat much more than you need to for the day and still lose bodyfat. This is possible because you won't be storing bodyfat due to absence of insulin. It is also important to realize that energy has to be converted, mechanically stored, and the simply fact that the more food you eat, the less efficient your body becomes.If you did control for calories and other factors, a ketogenic diet (with refeeds) will outperform a reduced calorie diet with carbohydrates. Why? The absence of insulin.
That's not entirely true though. Although Insulin is one way that the body stores fat, its not the only way. Everyone here seems to ignore the Acylation Stimulating Protein (ASP) Pathway of fat storage. It does not need insulin to store fat, and will do so on it's own.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10355026
Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is an adipocyte-derived protein which has potent anabolic effects on human adipose tissue for both glucose and free fatty acid (FFA) storage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21348923
Growing evidence suggests that ASP may significantly contribute to subcutaneous fat storage in females. In vitro, ASP stimulated triglyceride synthesis to a larger extent in subcutaneous compared with omental adipocytes.
Also, Hormone Sensitive Lipase can be suppressed by fat intake, so then how are we extracting and burning fat from the cells?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9950782?ordinalpos=368&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
I'm not gonna lie I had no idea what that was when you posted it. Skimming these two papers:http://www.jlr.org/content/40/9/1671.full.pdfhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC288301/pdf/jcinvest00041-0439.pdfIt seems apparent to me that ASP while it will transolocate GLUT1 and GLUT4, it can not directly store fatty store acids. Since blood sugar levels on a low carb diet are stable, it isn't a concern. Additionally, it seems to only be a concern in very obese and individuals with metabolic disorders. What causes ASP to be stimulated? I don't know I couldn't quite figure that out. The diet works. You don't have to count calories. I don't know of any other diets either where you can lose fat by eating 2,5000 calories a day. That is maintance for most people on a standard diet.Ask Kiefer about ASP. I bet he is aware of it, the man read more scientific papers than we ever have.
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