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Hey guys and gals, I think like a lot of other people who read the book and the forums that all this information makes things so confusing. It's like majoring in the minor. Kiefer says sweet potatoes and rice are good for backloading but then has super high carb suggestions and that would take like 6 potatoes, so now people resort to eating all this junk food and it becomes hard to differentiate who can eat what.Personally, I think Sean Hyson's synopsis of CBL gave some concise clarity to CBL and although it doesn't to justice to the book at least it gives people an idea of WHERE TO START. Why doesn't Kiefer give examples like....Here's what I would do for a 200lb man at 15% looking to bulk or 240lb man looking to drop fat etc.Seriously, throw out some real world examples here so we can see what KIEFER what actually do to help someone, even if it is just a rough estimation.No other diet plan has ever been "simpler" while creating so much confusion.
I think that the implication, as I understand it, is that you want to hit the fast burning carbs because the idea is that you want to get the glycogen up fast. Then you want insulin to drop off fast so that your body can get started with releasing GH, which is happening overnight so you want to hit the gym around 5 so that after your workout your last carb load will be arouind 10:00pm. You go to sleep around 11 or so and your insulin will drop soon after giving you the longest amount of time to release GH. If you eat slower burning carbs your insuklin will not drop untill later overnight and you will be narrowing you window for the release of GH.The only thing I can see as far as confusion is that some people are overloading the carbs. Start big and then taper down until you find the right amount, but stick with the higher burning carbs (high GI is the term?).
rb got it. Start high with the carbs so you get a big reaction and taper down until you get the result you're looking for (full muscles, but little water retention) and continue to adjust from there. I think the big take home point of both of the kinds of diets Kiefer has released is to learn how to listen to your body and adjust accordingly. This doesn't happen overnight but in time you can kind of go by feel. You can judge carb intake by how you performed in the gym (sluggish and weak=more carbs) and you can judge by the way you look the next morning (full and hard vs. flat vs. retaining water) and adjust accordingly. Personally I don't measure anything. I kind of go by feel. In the ULC portion o the day I eat when I'm hungry and I don't when I'm not. When I'm eating carbs I kind of use the same feelings. If I eat something high glycemic and it makes me feel kind of bloated and tired I stop. If it doesn't I'll keep going.
Thanks for both of your replies, I do find them helpful. I have no problem drinking a shake with dextrose in it but after that I am more of a rice/potatoes kind of guy and have a hard time eating junk, mostly because I was formerly chubby and have since lost my taste for junk food.Did either of you do the prep phase and/or was it helpful? I did it way back in 2011 but since coming back into CBL this time I skipped it, mainly because I haven't been eating carbs on off days and didn't know if I needed to deplete myself.I was doing Intermittent Fasting and actually found it very hard to GAIN weight which is exactly what I want to do on CBL but like I said I flounder around with how many carbs I have been eating. I am right around 15% bf and would like to gain about 10-15 lbs before the new year, but I have such a hard time not gaining fat.
This actually day 9 of my prep phase, I haven't started the program yet. You need to read, read, read. I read alot before I read CBL and decided to give it a try. Really there is nothing that Keifer had made new except his loading times, he has only interrpreted existing data differently than most others and it is working so he is obviously interrpreting it correctly. I used to collect old bodybuilding and nutrition books and there is from from Franco Colombu that I remember reading and he recommended a beer with every meal... What a guy!The bottom line is that you will see in every program that nutrition is actually a larger component than the exercise, but both are required to get results. Nutrient timing seems to be gaining more and more importance in recent years and most recently I have noticed that the type of nutrient, ie: high GI as opposed to low GI is almost at the top of the list. This protocol seems to cover all of that, type of food and timing of food. This is all a bit tricky to understand if people have only read the CBL book, but as long as you are willing to learn and you can be patient you will figure it all out. Just be open to suggestions to those who have been successful. I am 38 and have been working out since I was 17 and doing ULC on and off since I was 26 and I still don't know anything. If I did I would have figured out CBL a long time ago myself right?RB
The prep phase is really important, just do it, or else you'll be constantly wondering if you should have done it
Totally it does take a while. I've been doing CBL for about the last 18 months. And at first I had the opportunity to work with Kiefer personally, which not too many people have had. I've been tweaking since then and I have learned a lot. Take your time. Measure your results as accurately as you can and record as much as you can so you can go back and determine the best course of action.
Since a couple of you have had the experience………is your fat intake decently high during the day? Let's say I am eating 150grams protein pre-workout, have you actually been eating around 150 grams fat in that period too? I have done ketogenic before and have no problem eating lots of fat. I will do the prep phase, but would love to hear if others keep their fat high during the day. Obviously this is adding to the overall calorie intake which helps with muscle growth. And also, on off days does it stay high? As in 200 grams of fat all day? Even with 250 grams protein and 200 grams fat on an off day, this is only 2800 calories, so still pretty light.
I'm not tracking my macros. I just stick to fatty meats and add a healthy chunk of butter to my hot chocolate. I drink cream whenever I suspect I may be having too little fat
I'm about 183 around 15%bf at 5'3 I haven't really crunched the numbers but this is what my diet generally looks likeOff dayCoffee w/2T butter and 1T mct oilLunch is usually 24oz beef (80/20) and 8oz. Bacon generally eaten around 1Dinner is generally a 12oz steak or something like that Before bed I might have 2 eggs and a few slices of bacon if I'm hungry Training days Coffee w/2T butter and 1T mctLunch is 16oz. Beef and 8oz. BaconPre training I have coffeeIntra training I have 1 scoop of whey 5g creatine and 5g leucine (all out of hydrolysate at the moment)Post training is 60g whey, 5g creatine, 5g leucine I start back loading about 30 minutes later Back loads are generally 2-3 bowls of cereal, maybe some cookies or something. Again all of these are estimated but my diet is pretty consistent. If I find I'm getting too fat I'll cut one of my back load nights completely. If I need more I will eat more. Doing it like this I've been able to add quite a bit of lean mass over the past 18 months.
Max, are you male or female?
The prep phase is really important, just do it, or else you'll be constantly wondering if you should have done it
+1I saw the world of difference it made when I did it after coming back from holidays. After having dialed back the carbs (give or take 150g only on training days), and eliminated cottage cheese and a lot of vegetables fats (olive oil and nuts, except for macadamias), I've gained muscle, as my now tight-fitting clothes attest. I guess it really primes your body for both muscle growth and fat loss. Like Fairy, I've also included more butter, cream and fish oil for fat intake. However, I've back on bacon, as I'm getting bloated from the sodium (shame, I know :()Other things that work for me is pushing not only my carbs, but the bulk of my calories at night. I have the AM shake, lunch and a small protein + fat a few hours before I train. So far, it works better than having more meals in a day.I'm female and looking to build muscle by the way.
you cant always put out cookie cutters because they dont always fit, if im 200lb 10% bf and follow the directions for a 200lb guy and have problems, the average person will blame the diet and drop off. half the point is to figuer out yourself, you get the principles from the book/articles/pods and apply it.
I'm about 183 around 15%bf at 5'3 I haven't really crunched the numbers but this is what my diet generally looks likeOff dayCoffee w/2T butter and 1T mct oilLunch is usually 24oz beef (80/20) and 8oz. Bacon generally eaten around 1Dinner is generally a 12oz steak or something like that Before bed I might have 2 eggs and a few slices of bacon if I'm hungry Training days Coffee w/2T butter and 1T mctLunch is 16oz. Beef and 8oz. BaconPre training I have coffeeIntra training I have 1 scoop of whey 5g creatine and 5g leucine (all out of hydrolysate at the moment)Post training is 60g whey, 5g creatine, 5g leucine I start back loading about 30 minutes later Back loads are generally 2-3 bowls of cereal, maybe some cookies or something. Again all of these are estimated but my diet is pretty consistent. If I find I'm getting too fat I'll cut one of my back load nights completely. If I need more I will eat more. Doing it like this I've been able to add quite a bit of lean mass over the past 18 months.
Why don't you consume in carbs with your post training shake? I thought that was very important according to the book. Doesn't the books specifically say consume brown spotted bananas or dextrose with this PWO shake, prior to the big load?
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