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February 22, 2013 at 8:33 pm #6928
s2brhallMemberI am doing the 5/3/1 program with BBB. I have made great gains in my main lifts and now have a 990 total but I haven't put on much size even with the 5×10 done for assistance work. I love the basic layout of 5/3/1 and the strength gains but I want to add more size now.In your opinion what are the best rep ranges and schemes to use for adding size? I have done shockwave, but I like the strength component of 5/3/1 and the emphasise on the main lifts. So what I am really looking for is how to re-arrange my assistance work to maximize muscle growth. Thanks for the help.BTW - I know 8 - 12 reps is the gold standard answer but is that really the best? Especially since, and I'm sure I'm not alone, I have been lifting for over ten years and a lot of those years I followed the 3 sets of 8-12 approach with minimal gains.Cheers!
February 22, 2013 at 8:35 pm #148546
Brandon D ChristParticipantYep 8-12 is the gold standard for most exercises. There are some exceptions though, like shrugs and face pulls which are better done from 12-20 reps.
February 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm #148547
BenjaminDMemberYep 8-12 is the gold standard for most exercises. There are some exceptions though, like shrugs and face pulls which are better done from 12-20 reps.
+1I find that with an exercises like leg pressing or shrugs, sets of 15-20 are my sweet spot. Just got to play around with the rep ranges and see what feels best.
February 25, 2013 at 9:11 pm #148548
Gl;itch.eMemberAll rep ranges. The majority of them should be in the 8-12 range but you should still be doing stuff in the 1-7 and 12-20+ ranges as well if size is your ultimate goal. You want to hypertrophy ALL types of muscle fibres.Its not light weight/high reps or heavy weight/low reps but Heavy Weight/High Reps that you want! (; No ones going to tell me that 8 reps on squats is going to produce better muscle growth than 20+ reps! Proved it on myself!
February 25, 2013 at 9:34 pm #148549
Brandon D ChristParticipantAll rep ranges. The majority of them should be in the 8-12 range but you should still be doing stuff in the 1-7 and 12-20+ ranges as well if size is your ultimate goal. You want to hypertrophy ALL types of muscle fibres.Its not light weight/high reps or heavy weight/low reps but Heavy Weight/High Reps that you want! (; No ones going to tell me that 8 reps on squats is going to produce better muscle growth than 20+ reps! Proved it on myself!
My problem with this is that different muscles have different concentrations of the types of muscle fibers. I do not think anyone is going to be successful beyond newbie gains if they are training rear delts with sets of 5 and glutes with sets of 20.
February 25, 2013 at 10:19 pm #148550
Gl;itch.eMemberAll rep ranges. The majority of them should be in the 8-12 range but you should still be doing stuff in the 1-7 and 12-20+ ranges as well if size is your ultimate goal. You want to hypertrophy ALL types of muscle fibres.Its not light weight/high reps or heavy weight/low reps but Heavy Weight/High Reps that you want! (; No ones going to tell me that 8 reps on squats is going to produce better muscle growth than 20+ reps! Proved it on myself!
My problem with this is that different muscles have different concentrations of the types of muscle fibers. I do not think anyone is going to be successful beyond newbie gains if they are training rear delts with sets of 5 and glutes with sets of 20.
Well if you are talking about isolation then yes I agree 100. But we should be focused more so on training movement patterns. For instance, using Rear Delts as the target muscle, you should have a number of exercises with a number of rep ranges that will work the Rear Delts as part of a compound movement (rows, pullups/pulldowns, other various pulls) and then if maximum size of that body part is a goal also focused isolation exercises. Now obviously the compound exercises that recruit the most amount of muscle mass are going to lend themselves more to the heavier/low rep end of the spectrum, not to say moderate or higher reps cant be used. And the less muscle/more isolated the exercise becomes, the lighter the weight (to maintain stress on the proper muscle) and the higher the rep ranges needed to properly fatique said muscle (unless you want to do multiple sets of lower reps with short breaks between and cant get proper activation of the muscle with the heavier compound exercises)I know you understand all that iBob, it's just a matter of perspective. Any sound program would have a range of exercises, and a range of reps, so that you can train whatever bodypart you want with the full spectrum.using rear delts as an example during a back workoutdeadlifts (1-5 reps)barbell row (5-10 reps)face pulls (10-15 reps)cable rear delt flyes (15-20+ reps)Rear Delts are getting worked the entire time through different loading, movement patterns and ranges of motion. simply stated: If your program isnt retarded you are good to go!
February 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm #148551
Brandon D ChristParticipantWell I meant making a specific muscle grow.
February 25, 2013 at 10:50 pm #148552
Lesli BortzParticipantSo I'd like to just throw a question on here.I'm also doing 5/3/1 two day split and bb type work the other 4 days. Max I go is 8 reps all the way down to 1-3 reps. This has been for about 8 months. I have been debating this in my head, maybe occasionally on my log too, - will I benefit from upping the reps if I'm looking for size/definition. Will the lower reps not get me that? I've been making nice strength gains but would not want to miss out on the previously mentioned size/definition.
February 25, 2013 at 10:56 pm #148553
Gl;itch.eMemberSo I'd like to just throw a question on here.I'm also doing 5/3/1 two day split and bb type work the other 4 days. Max I go is 8 reps all the way down to 1-3 reps. This has been for about 8 months. I have been debating this in my head, maybe occasionally on my log too, - will I benefit from upping the reps if I'm looking for size/definition. Will the lower reps not get me that? I've been making nice strength gains but would not want to miss out on the previously mentioned size/definition.
If theres a muscle you want to grow more, then simply add more targeted exercises for it i.e subbing bench press for close grip or board press if triceps are the target. After that you can isolate with higher reps if you feel it hasnt been sufficiently stimulated. Likewise if you are having problems activating the muscle during compound exercises you could "pre-exhaust" the muscle with an isolation exercise before going into the heavier stuff.
February 25, 2013 at 11:19 pm #148554
Gl;itch.eMemberWell I meant making a specific muscle grow.
Exactly. Ive probably made this more confusing than necessary, But essentially feeling the muscle you are targeting working during the heaviest exercises is the best bet. Thats FAR more important than the rep ranges. You should taylor all your exercises and rep ranges accordingly for the goal at hand.Some people stick with exercises and rep ranges because the feel they are "supposed to" do it. Using myself as an example, I Squat because I want a bigger Squat, but if I was doing it for Quad growth I would be wasting my time. The muscle that grows the most when I Squat with higher reps is my Glutes! So if I wanted to grow my Quads I wouldnt just stick with squats. I would replace them with the heaviest exercise I could find that focused more of the stress/tension on that muscle. So I might do Front Squats or Leg press since they are the heaviest relative exercise for those muscles. After training them with an effective compound exercise, if the muscle still doesnt feel stimulated enough (probably didnt do enough sets LOL) you can move on to other more isolated exercises, always going for the next heaviest exercise you can manage while still putting the stress and tension on the targeted muscle group.
March 6, 2013 at 5:03 pm #148555
YoketasticGuestI am currently running 5/3/1 Boring But Big and I've structured it like this:Squat 5/3/1Squat SinglesDeadlift: 5x8 260Front Squat 4x6 155Leg Ext 4x8Leg Curl 4x8Abs From cycle to cycle I will move my 2nd and 3rd lift up 10lbs. So next cycle I will make my deadlift 5x8 @ 270 Front Squat 4x6 165. So your sticking to the basic principles with your 5/31/ sets as well as your accessory. In the book he has a template laid out specifically for mass. From memory it looks something like this!Squat 5/3/1Squat - Drop Set using 50%Deadlift 5x10Front Sq 5x10Leg Pres 5x10I utilized this template for my first two cycles of 5/3/1 and it really set a great base for future cycles. Hope this helps!
March 6, 2013 at 9:12 pm #148556
Go HeavyParticipantWell since rear delts are on the brain in this thread. I'd like to point out for me that Even with deads, facepulls and rows, it was not until I started doing rear flys ,aiming for 12 every time that I saw any significant difference in my rear delts.
March 6, 2013 at 9:32 pm #148557
Cory McCarthyMember8-12 is the golden standard, but in a new (10-week) study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology, 25-30 will also build JUST as much muscle as 8-12, but 8-12 will build more strength.Cory
March 6, 2013 at 9:35 pm #148558
Brandon D ChristParticipant8-12 is the golden standard, but in a new (10-week) study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology, 25-30 will also build JUST as much muscle as 8-12, but 8-12 will build more strength.Cory
Do you have a link for that?
March 6, 2013 at 9:43 pm #148559
Cory McCarthyMember8-12 is the golden standard, but in a new (10-week) study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology, 25-30 will also build JUST as much muscle as 8-12, but 8-12 will build more strength.Cory
Do you have a link for that?
I'm sure I could find one. Pulled it out of both the new MuscleMag and the new Flex (or maybe it was Muscle & Fitness, one of those Weider pubs).CoryEDIT: here's one... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120430105358.htm
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