- This topic has 4 voices and 17 replies.
-
Posts
-
I finished reading CBL this weekend and will start tomorrow. So to be sure, I work out around 10am, which means I back load the night before and only back load the evening of pwo if I am scheduled to workout the next day. If not, then the only carbs will be in the pwo shake. Does this sound correct? Also, are carbs in morning pwo shake recommended if following SA protocol? Thank you!Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4
I finished reading CBL this weekend and will start tomorrow. So to be sure, I work out around 10am, which means I back load the night before and only back load the evening of pwo if I am scheduled to workout the next day. If not, then the only carbs will be in the pwo shake. Does this sound correct? Also, are carbs in morning pwo shake recommended if following SA protocol? Thank you!Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4
I believe the difference is whether you're working out fasted or not. If you've had a ULC meal prior to working out, it would probably fall under the "middle training" guidelines of the book. If you've only had coffee, it'd probably fall under the "fasted training" guidelines.EDIT: Fasted training uses carbs in PWO. Middle does not.
Thank you for this reply. I should have been more clear. I will train fasted as I wake up around 9am.
Absolutely. One thing about that chapter is that he does not specify between an SA and DB protocol in terms of pwo shake. He just says include carbs as normal. For an SA protocol, this seemed odd as there are two carb induced insulin spikes spread far apart in a day; once in the morning pwo shake, and another later that evening during a cbl (if working out the following day).
I take that back, he does discern between DB and SA with that diagram at the end. But I still found the insulin issue rather odd for SA.
Well for fasted training, you should be backloading the night before. So you won't necessarily be spiking insulin twice in the same day. (Depending on training schedule)But also, he does say, that the anabolic response is doubled by including a small amount of carbs after fasted AM training. Pretty good justification to do it, in my opinion, regardless of SA or DB. I suppose you could try it with and without and see if you notice a difference.
Well for fasted training, you should be backloading the night before. So you won't necessarily be spiking insulin twice in the same day. (Depending on training schedule)But also, he does say, that the anabolic response is doubled by including a small amount of carbs after fasted AM training. Pretty good justification to do it, in my opinion, regardless of SA or DB. I suppose you could try it with and without and see if you notice a difference.
Great info. Thank you again for your responses. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Towards the back of the book, there are example meal plans choreographed around training time. For the 9 and 10 am training, which is where I fall under, it shows post workout shake – no carbs. Does this not contradict chapter 43 saying go ahead with carbs PWO for early morning training? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Towards the back of the book, there are example meal plans choreographed around training time. For the 9 and 10 am training, which is where I fall under, it shows post workout shake - no carbs. Does this not contradict chapter 43 saying go ahead with carbs PWO for early morning training? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Don't do Carbs in the AM, bottom line.That was a followon article or Q&S (I forget) where he said Kiefer thought it was self explanatory but clearly stated that you want a carb less Insulin spike when AM training. Use some leucine and creatine, probably water for your PWO.For the actual carb loading part, it's the night before any training (does not matter if you trained that AM or not).Hope it helps
Towards the back of the book, there are example meal plans choreographed around training time. For the 9 and 10 am training, which is where I fall under, it shows post workout shake - no carbs. Does this not contradict chapter 43 saying go ahead with carbs PWO for early morning training? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Don't do Carbs in the AM, bottom line.That was a followon article or Q&S (I forget) where he said Kiefer thought it was self explanatory but clearly stated that you want a carb less Insulin spike when AM training. Use some leucine and creatine, probably water for your PWO.For the actual carb loading part, it's the night before any training (does not matter if you trained that AM or not).Hope it helps
Your advice contradicts the word-for-word explanation in the book."By including a small amount of carbs after early-morning-fasted training, we double the anabolic response of a regular, pre-fed training session." and"Immediately after the morning training, therefore, things remain exactly as if training at the ideal time including the carbs"
Towards the back of the book, there are example meal plans choreographed around training time. For the 9 and 10 am training, which is where I fall under, it shows post workout shake - no carbs. Does this not contradict chapter 43 saying go ahead with carbs PWO for early morning training? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Again, the difference is in the fast state, I believe. Notice in the Train @ 6am example, the ONLY thing consumed pre-workout is coffee.. On the train @10am example, there is a pre-workout shake, and cream in the coffee. If your body is on a schedule of waking at 9am, and you're going to have nothing but coffee before working out, you're in the fasted training group.
Your advice contradicts the word-for-word explanation in the book."By including a small amount of carbs after early-morning-fasted training, we double the anabolic response of a regular, pre-fed training session." and"Immediately after the morning training, therefore, things remain exactly as if training at the ideal time including the carbs"
Tracking what book said, but in a followon article it states. (quote from Kiefer, bolding by me):"The article was about back-loading your carbs through the day, and even ended with the hint that changing your diet and your schedule is part of the formula. Then people asked how they would back-load their carbs if they workout first thing in the morning, implying they should have post-workout carbs. And maybe I shouldn’t make that assumption, but I did. Well, this is kind of a no-brainer from the perspective of back-loading, isn’t it? Eating carbs first thing in the morning post-workout, nullifies the chance to back-load. Now let’s talk about back-loading carbs and lifting first thing in the morning.The general belief about post workout carbs is that it’s the carbs that matter. They do, but they’re not the most important factor. It’s the spike in insulin levels. Insulin signals cells to shuttle all kinds of nutrients and building blocks across the cellular wall, not just glucose. Cholesterol depends on insulin to enter the cells of the body, as do amino acids. If trying to back-load carbs and lift in the morning, what’s needed is a way to spike insulin levels post-workout without eating carbs. Luckily, there is a way to do it.So, that magical carb-free-insulin spike: casein hydrolysates and leucine. This mixture causes insulin spikes without the aid of carbohydrates. The Mag-10 and Anaconda formulas from Biotest® are both based on this combination. Protein Factory also sells pure casein and leucine. I recommend Protein Factory for cost and because of the ability to create custom blends of protein. About 10 grams of casein hydrolysate, 10 grams of leucine and 40 to 50 grams of a whey hydrolysate or isolate is excellent post-workout nutrition, causes an insulin spike, supplies all the necessary amino acids, promotes recovery and growth, all without carbs. Add coffee and creatine to the mix and there’s not much better that can be done after a morning workout without carbs. (Caution: hydrolysates taste like shit because of the massive amount of proline produced during the hydrolyzation process.)"http://athlete.io/360/from-elitefts-back-loading-follow-up/Although in the article right after that Kiefer mentions"Non-Optimal Workout TimesYou can back-load carbs, even if you lift in the morning, but it is sub-optimal. I explain how in the previous post."http://athlete.io/370/carb-back-loading-the-final-follow-up/He also has since stated elsewhere (too tired to look, the creatine series articles?) about not mixing creatine and coffee due to creatine not functioning properly when mixed caffeine.
Those are good articles, but not follow-ups. They were written in 2010 before CBL came out.
+1.The articles are follow ups to articles from Elite FTS, not the CBL book.
I stand corrected, D'oh
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.