- This topic has 7 voices and 26 replies.
-
Posts
-
Finally finished holidays and back to the yearly grind. I have been following a well-formulated ketogenic diet for the past four months (BoHB between 1.0 – 3.0) and love the way it makes me feel and I think CBL is going to offer a good balance between that lifestyle and optimal gym performance & gains. So here is my plan after reading CBL twice and buying supplements on a tight budget (WPI/Hydrolysates and others too expensive here in AU even if buying plain):Morning (7am) 5g Concentrated fish oilEspresso Coffee dbl shot15g WPC1 tbsp. coconut oil5g glutaminePre-Workout (Around 4pm)Pre-workout supplement (caffeine 180mg, creatine, betaine, CM, BA)30g WPC1 tbsp. coconut oil1 tsp creatine monoDuring Workout5g BCAA 2:1:15g leucine15g WPCPost WorkoutEspresso Coffee dbl shot70g WPC75g Dextrose/Maltodextrin mix5g leucine5g creatineBed Time5g Concentrated Fish OilZincMagnesium5g GlutamineOthersMultivitaminProbioticvitamin D 5000IUVitamin E 500mg6x Fish Oil capsI plan on lifting 4x a week for my first 12 week cycle then might increase for the second after that. Will only CBL on my lifting days and eat ketogenically the other 3. I currently weigh 155lbs at around 12% bf looking to increase to about 180lb by September. Any advice/criticism on my plan above would be greatly appreciated. Keep in mind I cannot buy any more supplements than the ones I have listed above however I can alter the ratios and portion sizes easily. Post workout I will wait approx. 60 mins then consume my high carbohydrate meal and then return to low carb before bed.
how tall are you? I'm 5'11 and started at right around 150 this past may. I'm sitting very close to 180lbs right now..
Hey Sano thanks for your reply. I'm 179cm (so just under 6 foot).
so almost identical to me.. what seems to work best for me is more fat less protein and high frequency weight training. I see you said you are working out 4x a week what sort of training? if you aren't hitting each muscle group at least 3x a week you are probably under-training that muscle and it will slow down your progress.. currently i do a 6x a week routine hitting everything 3x a week..I tried very high carbs on backloads but noticed i just don't gain any weight from doing that so i lowered my overall carbs on backloads and just kept my fats higher seems to be working so far
As someone who suffers from high(er) cortisol levels there is no way I will be training each bodypart 3x a week. I'd almost go close to saying that for the majority of the population (non-chemical assisted) that each bodypart 3x a week is significant over training.I have done training splits working muscle groups out 2x a week (6 days a/b/c - a/b/c) and my cortisol levels shot up to the point where other health-related issues started to arise.
As someone who suffers from high(er) cortisol levels there is no way I will be training each bodypart 3x a week. I'd almost go close to saying that for the majority of the population (non-chemical assisted) that each bodypart 3x a week is significant over training.I have done training splits working muscle groups out 2x a week (6 days a/b/c - a/b/c) and my cortisol levels shot up to the point where other health-related issues started to arise.
medical issues aside i'd say the complete opposite.. most people don't put enough stress or intensity into a workout to warrant only a single workout on a muscle group a week... one example say someone does a bicep workout once a week on average maybe doing 8 sets on that workout for each body part and each exercise takes about 30 seconds per set.. that would be a total of 4 minutes of stress a week on a particular muscle group.. the way majority of people train that isn't even close to enough work on that muscle to optimize any growth on it.
Count yourself lucky that your CNS can deal with that amount of workload cause I know that mine (and a lot of the people I work with) cannot.There is a big difference however between full body workouts (stimulating muscle groups 3-4x each per week) to a typical mass building routine. I'll have to dig out the papers but i'm almost certain they did a study not too long ago (mid 2000's) regarding total workload splits and found that an overwhelming majority of participants produced greater results doing (per muscle group) 9 sets 2x a week as opposed to 6 sets 3x a week.If you respond to say exercising chest 3x a week then thats great but even "experienced" lifters have not fully recovered within under 48 hours. Exercising chest again (and again) will eventually lead to some seriously bad conditioning within the muscle resulting in tears which could put you out of the gym for 6+ months.I know this is mainly a "nutrition" forum but I would be very wary telling people they if they "aren't hitting each muscle group at least 3x a week you are probably under-training".
the CNS problem should only come into play if you are doing strength training to often ie working much closer to your 1 rep max OR doing to failure training every single workout. If you program your workouts correctly you should not get CNS burnout doing a bodybuilding routine and hit muscle groups 3x a week… talk with pretty much anyone that has a great physique(natural or not) and I bet even if they do 1 body part per week right now they most likely trained each body part several times a week to get to where they are.. there's a reason why when bodybuilders having lagging body parts they don't train them less but much more frequently(natural or not).http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_neural_charge/neural_charge_trainingalso look into the Bulgarian research on muscle recovery that show muscles generally recovered enough to work them again within 6-8 hours depending how they are trainedalso these forums are as much nutrition as they are about training.. just good % on here are into powerlifting not bodybuilding.... with proper recovery and programming you can work muscles numerous times a week without CNS burnout or any sort of muscular over training
Thanks for the link – read the article. In my opinion it just looks like another training program. The key point which you brought up in your reply was that the training is NOT to failure. There are pros and cons of both “frequent – non-failure” training and TTF. I have been working in and around gyms & exercise professionals for over 13 years now (which in the long run isn't THAT long) however I have only ever seen less than a handful of people benefit from frequent (>2x per week per body part) and they were chemically assisted.Personally I come from the camp that training to failure every single workout is of great benefit (differing rep ranges though so all muscle fibres become recruited)Utilising short-term increases in frequency (3x a week as you suggest) for bodybuilders who "lag" on certain parts can be greatly beneficial - but as stated in the article you linked should only be used short-term.When talking about 8-12 week programs (and once again you have your opinion and I have mine) working out 6x a week doing what would basically be a 2 day split repeated 3x is too much for most (from what I have seen).I appreciate your reply's to this thread though. Always good to have discussion on the topics at hand.
no problem, i like to change things up when i train.. i feel doing that same thing month to month for long periods of time is not only boring but not as helpful as changing up exercises, changing rep ranges, changing frequency ect ect.. unless of course you are training for something specific like a powerlifting meet or something. I also notice many people respond to different things so really no universal way to train for everyone especially when it comes to muscle growth and it depends on many factors ie experience, if you have a trainer, is that trainer any good, how hard you can actually push yourself in a workout, genetics.. and many other things
Finally finished holidays and back to the yearly grind. I have been following a well-formulated ketogenic diet for the past four months (BoHB between 1.0 - 3.0) and love the way it makes me feel and I think CBL is going to offer a good balance between that lifestyle and optimal gym performance & gains. So here is my plan after reading CBL twice and buying supplements on a tight budget (WPI/Hydrolysates and others too expensive here in AU even if buying plain):Morning (7am) 5g Concentrated fish oilEspresso Coffee dbl shot15g WPC1 tbsp. coconut oil5g glutaminePre-Workout (Around 4pm)Pre-workout supplement (caffeine 180mg, creatine, betaine, CM, BA)30g WPC1 tbsp. coconut oil1 tsp creatine monoDuring Workout5g BCAA 2:1:15g leucine15g WPCPost WorkoutEspresso Coffee dbl shot70g WPC75g Dextrose/Maltodextrin mix5g leucine5g creatineBed Time5g Concentrated Fish OilZincMagnesium5g GlutamineOthersMultivitaminProbioticvitamin D 5000IUVitamin E 500mg6x Fish Oil capsI plan on lifting 4x a week for my first 12 week cycle then might increase for the second after that. Will only CBL on my lifting days and eat ketogenically the other 3. I currently weigh 155lbs at around 12% bf looking to increase to about 180lb by September. Any advice/criticism on my plan above would be greatly appreciated. Keep in mind I cannot buy any more supplements than the ones I have listed above however I can alter the ratios and portion sizes easily. Post workout I will wait approx. 60 mins then consume my high carbohydrate meal and then return to low carb before bed.
Few things I see.130 g of WPC during the day. Why so much you only weigh 155 lbs. I don't know how many grams/lb you plan on trying to take in during the day but even if you were at 2 g/lb 130 grams is almost half your daily intake. IMO too much unnecessary powder especially if you are on a tight supp budget. 10 g fish oil and 6x fish oil caps? Are the 6 caps in addition or do they contain the 10 g. How much of this is Omega-3s? 5 g of Omega3s should be plenty assuming you are consuming good sources of meat and fish outside supps.During workout 5 g BCAA and 5 g leucine. Between the 2 I don't think you need so much leucine.Otherwise I think things are fine. Since you have been in fitness so long you know the supps are just a little aid. To gain 25 lbs of quality mass in 9 months is going to take a lot of food. That would be the area to plan the most.In terms of training TTF has benefits for hypertrophy but is very limiting for strength (beyond the person just starting in the gym, if a person is just starting they can do just about anything and get stronger). However, it sure as hell is going to crush your CNS and limit the frequency you can train at so I'll agree with you on that portion. If you are focusing on strength development you would be best following a different set structure.On the other hand muscle recovery happens in 48 hours so as long as you are programming your volume correctly you can absolutely work a muscle group 3x a week and see benefits. Everyone is different though so someone may see shit progress trying to do this and someone may take off training this way.Some parts of the body recover better than others. For example the upper back and chest recover much better than the lower back and legs so they can be trained harder during the week. Some lifts wreck the CNS and body more than others. For example deadlifts are probably the most taxing lift you can perform and your body will not be able to keep up with recovery if you are trying to do them several times a week.On the last note of overtraining and under training. I'll agree with Sano that most people do not workout with the intensity and frequency to overtrain themselves...they just aren't mentally and physically prepared to do that. However, being an idiot, poor programming, and not listening to your body in terms of what it needs for recovery can sure as hell lead to overtraining.
Training a muscle 2x per week is plenty.Cut the bullshit.
Frequency is one facet amongst volume, intensity, and density. Depending on your goals you may need to program 1, 2, or 3 workouts for a specific muscle group.
Thanks for your reply cgrims. Ill answer the replies to your questions below:130 g of WPC during the day. Why so much you only weigh 155 lbs. I don't know how many grams/lb you plan on trying to take in during the day but even if you were at 2 g/lb 130 grams is almost half your daily intake. IMO too much unnecessary powder especially if you are on a tight supp budget. That amount of WPC is actually lower than the amount recommended in the CBL book. I sourced my supplement recommendations straight from the manual and Kiefer says to consume 165g of protein spread between waking to post-training so I thought 130g was being cheap considering my BW.10 g fish oil and 6x fish oil caps? Are the 6 caps in addition or do they contain the 10 g. How much of this is Omega-3s? 5 g of Omega3s should be plenty assuming you are consuming good sources of meat and fish outside supps.The 10g is separate to the capsules. 10g fish oil + 6 caps contains 4500g EPA/DHA and once again within CBL Kiefer recommends 5g of EPA/DHA so I am just under according to this. I do eat fatty fish and omega-3 enriched eggs but the fish is only probably once per week.During workout 5 g BCAA and 5 g leucine. Between the 2 I don't think you need so much leucine.Again in CBL Kiefer says 10g isolate, 20g casein, 3g leucine. BCAA powder is much cheaper than isolate & casein powder so if we looked at the amino acid profile of that 30g protein it equivalents out to be around 7g BCAA's - so thats why I added in 5g BCAA + 2g extra leucine.One questions for you on top of this: On my "off-days" I am assuming I should consume 1x 5g serve of creatine to keep levels concentrated but when would be best (Kiefer does not cover this in CBL). I am assuming morning.
First “ULC” day today. I have quite a lot of experience with nutritional ketosis so I thought id share what I ate:1 tbsp coco oil, 10g whey, coffee, 5g O31 tbsp coco oil, coffee w/ tbsp creamBaby spinach salad w/ cheese, mayonaise, cider vinegar + macadamia oil150g steak cooked in butter + spinach cream (spinach, onion, garlic, butter, cream) + caulimash (cauliflower mashed w/ butter & cream)coffee w/ tbsp cream3 eggs + 2 bacon rashers fried in butter + macadamia oilw
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.