- This topic has 33 voices and 153 replies.
-
Posts
-
Okay boys and girls,"THE COLLECTION OF STRATEGIES IS POSTED...UPDATED AS OF 16 AUG 2012 with some research studies." Realize this is an ongoing draft, and I'd really appreciate any research articles you have to prove your point once you make them. Ideally I'm going to turn this into a Flow Chart once enough info has been collected, so you can simply go: At 10%BF -->Yes or No --> Cut out vegetable fats --> Yes, etc.Carb Backloading - Carb Nite Strategies for Dropping Below 10% Body FatPlease refer to attachments, as the files turn into garbage once I cut and paste on the pages. Thanks. Any suggestions or additions are most welcome!Enjoy!
I acheived sub 10% bodyfat with a standard bodybuilding diet. I wouldn't be able to comment on “strategies” to get that low, but in my opinion, just keep focusing on building muscle and keeping your diet under control. Over time your body will slowly improve it's composition. I don't know how you would force your body to become that lean through diet. Kiefer would have to help you with that one.Be patient is all I can say.
1. Shorter backloads i.e. limited to 2 hours post workout instead of 42. Fewer Backloads per week
– If you want to eat cheese, eat it post workout (~1h after your shake) or else keep it out of the diet. Same goes for eggs.- Have a Carb Nite (rather have a backload) every 5th day. Not sooner, not later. Well, it actually depends so you might want to play around with the frequency. You might also want to keep the backloads shorter + play around with carb and fat amount in your backloads.- Keep it clean, IE selfmade fries in the oven etc. Keep the degree of the processing of the food very low to not existent.- Don't fast longer than 12h and then break the fast with fat and protein.
I acheived sub 10% bodyfat with a standard bodybuilding diet. I wouldn't be able to comment on "strategies" to get that low, but in my opinion, just keep focusing on building muscle and keeping your diet under control. Over time your body will slowly improve it's composition. I don't know how you would force your body to become that lean through diet. Kiefer would have to help you with that one.Be patient is all I can say.
No disrespect intended, but I do believe we have a communication barrier @ ibobland08. I'm just talking about general observations of what people have experienced, while on either CBL and CN...those of us that are at 10%BF or under, and some of the experiences we've share with dropping below this BF%.There are always tricks. Sometimes you can figure them out on your own, sometimes all it takes is a good idea or some new way to look at the problem. This scenario is quite complex, but if we can see where the majority of people are stalling out on a diet you can have a list of how to keep dropping more BF%, or at least know where to go to fix yourself.Keifer I'm sure would be able to help, but he's far too busy managing his business and podcasting to deal with the forums, or have individual clients.I think everyone else has the idea...nice input guys.
1. Cut out cheese!2. Keep carbs in the diet, don't go ULC for more than 2 daysYeah I could see how this would be a problem...so you've already experimented with going ULC while in CBL, what was the results of that experiment if you don't mind my asking?
1. Shorter backloads i.e. limited to 2 hours post workout instead of 4 Yeah, this one is good...Keifer even said that if you backload for two hours or if women were to backload for only two hours that the results would be better, since your closer to the anabolic window (actually those weren't his exact words, but he reflected that enzymatic actions on bodyfat were limited in time frame for women.2. Fewer Backloads per week Reference fewer backloads per week, even while working out...or perhaps having ULC days while hitting small muscle groups in the gym, like a shoulder workout and backloading would be a waste of time?!?
- If you want to eat cheese, eat it post workout (~1h after your shake) or else keep it out of the diet. Same goes for eggs. Can you pull out the experience with eggs? I'm curious if your results increased dramatically after losing eggs...too bad, I love eggs.- Have a Carb Nite (rather have a backload) every 5th day. Not sooner, not later. Well, it actually depends so you might want to play around with the frequency. You might also want to keep the backloads shorter + play around with carb and fat amount in your backloads. So while on CBL, you have a Carb Nite...okay, I'll bite...if you're stalled out and you just need a break to boost the metabolism back into fat burning mode, spike T3/T4...current levels of BF% you're at now...and current dietary strategy would be helpful on this one for validity. I believe you though, this makes sense after the body get's to a certain point of BF% loss.- Keep it clean, IE selfmade fries in the oven etc. Keep the degree of the processing of the food very low to not existent. Roger, BAM that's a good one.- Don't fast longer than 12h and then break the fast with fat and protein. I think this might be the problem for quite a few people, the closer you get towards starvation levels of BF% (or low homeostasis levels the body will try to stall progress or cut muscle mass reserves as a conservation too) so yeah, fasts of long time periods would only result in lean mass gains and possibly slow gains!
Nice work guys! I'll compile these when we've got a few more entries. Heck, who knows maybe we can put something together that's sticky worthy.
I know the fasting past 12 hours is problem for me, could see results quicker. A CN every 5th day?! Oh boy…
im going to start intaking carbs halfway through my workout and have all the carbs im going to eat that day within 2 hours post workout. Im also going to clean it up some. so less sugar for example. still high glycemic though. I'd like to see how well this goes for me.
Just want to say- thank you very much GremLin, I've been looking for a template a long time to compare to. I will definitely use this to tweak out what exactly I need to do.
Yeah, once we get enough replies I can compile it and put it into a useable format. It needs a much larger volume of experience to pull from though so we can get a comprehensive list of what works and what hinders progress. Sometimes observation and simple little tricks that you learn along the way can make all the difference. Science just can't explain all the little problems at times, and you just have to experiment. Everyone's is different, but if we can get enough of a sample size with the what works, what to try, people will have a better feel for what to do when you get down to those low number or if for example someone is stalling for whatever reason.
I know the fasting past 12 hours is problem for me, could see results quicker. A CN every 5th day?! Oh boy...Well, we know at least Big Tex is excited...this one may need some further research into, but it's worth investigating. I can see the benefits of just having an altogether f$#% it day and then going back on the usual scheme of things, just to keep the body off balance. I mean the body still adapts to certain aspects of CBL I'm sure, and having a switch at odd times may prove worthwhile, plus it'd be really useful for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And what do you mean fasting beyond 12 hours? As in after you've been awake or from bedtime to first food intake?
im going to start intaking carbs halfway through my workout and have all the carbs im going to eat that day within 2 hours post workout. Im also going to clean it up some. so less sugar for example. still high glycemic though. I'd like to see how well this goes for me. That sounds like a solid plan. CHO mid-workout would help stop cortisol release from being too severe and also start engaging MPS or at least halt MPB to get your body ready to recover and absorb nutrients. I seem to recall a study examining post workout CHO/AA, pre workout CHO/AA and during workout CHO/AA and the blood levels for cortisol and MPS. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/2/E197.long This isn't the one I was talking about, but it is a pre and post comparison. I need a better way of organizing my research files, or at least keep them on both my computers. >:(
1. Cut out cheese!2. Keep carbs in the diet, don't go ULC for more than 2 daysYeah I could see how this would be a problem...so you've already experimented with going ULC while in CBL, what was the results of that experiment if you don't mind my asking?
For me I used CNS to get down from 17% BF to 11% in a about a month and a half. At that point however I stalled out on the fat loss and started losing strength as well. I tried several things in an attempt to "restart" myself (cut out cheese and pretty much all dairy except butter, cut out plant fats, had a carb night every 5th night, then tried having a monday/thursday carb refeed) but none of this helped. In fact, I shot back up to 12%! Since then I have incorporated carbs back into my diet and backload heavily after every major lifting session (I'm doing shockwave right now) and do light backloads after core day and on the 2nd off day in a row (sunday night). I have now gone down to about 10.5% so it seems to be working and my strength is coming back up and I overall just feel better and look tighter. I am gonna keep this up for the rest of this week (I'm having about 500g of carbs on my backloads) and then next week I will transition to only eating carbs around the periworkout window (50g intra workout, 100g postworkout, 100g post post workout, then only protein after that till bed).
1. Cut out cheese!2. Keep carbs in the diet, don't go ULC for more than 2 daysYeah I could see how this would be a problem...so you've already experimented with going ULC while in CBL, what was the results of that experiment if you don't mind my asking?
For me I used CNS to get down from 17% BF to 11% in a about a month and a half. At that point however I stalled out on the fat loss and started losing strength as well. I tried several things in an attempt to "restart" myself (cut out cheese and pretty much all dairy except butter, cut out plant fats, had a carb night every 5th night, then tried having a monday/thursday carb refeed) but none of this helped. In fact, I shot back up to 12%! Since then I have incorporated carbs back into my diet and backload heavily after every major lifting session (I'm doing shockwave right now) and do light backloads after core day and on the 2nd off day in a row (sunday night). I have now gone down to about 10.5% so it seems to be working and my strength is coming back up and I overall just feel better and look tighter. I am gonna keep this up for the rest of this week (I'm having about 500g of carbs on my backloads) and then next week I will transition to only eating carbs around the periworkout window (50g intra workout, 100g postworkout, 100g post post workout, then only protein after that till bed).
That's good stuff. I've had a similar experience on the Anabolic Diet and just recently with Paleo type dieting. Low to no carbs for long periods of time with high fat and protein intake, then having a cheat day or high caloric load day...basically same story, still lean, but an increase in BF% nontheless with no change until I started CBL. Interesting indeed. Although this brings up a good point about increasing your thyroid gland secretions and/or other hormonal influences that help reset the metabolism. Too bad we don't have any blood tests to really confirm this theory.I just posted in the Podcast forum to get Keifer's help on this, so maybe he'll comment on it in the Podcast.
@gremlin1267For the eggs and cheese thing:http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+htmlAlso see:http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3288.msg34262#msg34262
@gremlin1267For the eggs and cheese thing:http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+htmlAlso see:http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3288.msg34262#msg34262
Yeah, I had found that article a while back and posted it here somewhere's. I love my eggs, but I'll give them up for a while until I hit the right numbers. I thought I would be okay with just eggs and bacon, but still to much insulin response.
I acheived sub 10% bodyfat with a standard bodybuilding diet. I wouldn't be able to comment on "strategies" to get that low, but in my opinion, just keep focusing on building muscle and keeping your diet under control. Over time your body will slowly improve it's composition. I don't know how you would force your body to become that lean through diet. Kiefer would have to help you with that one.Be patient is all I can say.
No disrespect intended, but I do believe we have a communication barrier @ ibobland08. I'm just talking about general observations of what people have experienced, while on either CBL and CN...those of us that are at 10%BF or under, and some of the experiences we've share with dropping below this BF%.There are always tricks. Sometimes you can figure them out on your own, sometimes all it takes is a good idea or some new way to look at the problem. This scenario is quite complex, but if we can see where the majority of people are stalling out on a diet you can have a list of how to keep dropping more BF%, or at least know where to go to fix yourself.Keifer I'm sure would be able to help, but he's far too busy managing his business and podcasting to deal with the forums, or have individual clients.I think everyone else has the idea...nice input guys.
Oh no I was just giving my two cents and how it happened to me. I was just admitting that I didn't know a tried and true strategy on how to do it. I think any of the methods listed on this thread could potentially work.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.