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I know I'm pretty alone on this one but I can't back load big and look lean. I back load 200-300 carbs a night Mon-Fri and wake up looking amazing (male, 5'10", 200 lbs). I have also learned that I gain WAY more muscle doing the small back loads than I did being ULC for almost two years. I have easily put on as much muscle in the last two months dong CBL as I did the first two years working out. I could always get stronger but I never put on mass. I know it is mass and not just water swelling either.
BB, can I call you BB?Anyway, I think that maybe your body type might just work better with the ULC. Did you start out on a particular diet where you couldn't add mass? What sort of training protocol? And typical build...you sound like a hard gainer or ectomorph, but your size would say differently. Could be related to how many calories you were eating before is why I ask. How about a full diet right up or the general pieces? You can PM me if you have them in another format and don't want to write it out. It just seems like a very small amount of CHO to be backloading on...however, hard to tell at this point.
I was fat 40% bf at my biggest and 253 lbs. Then I cut down to 178 lbs doing paleo/primal which is inherently low carb. I would say around 50 grams a day unless I ate the rogue white potato. My calories were approx 3000-3500 a day when I lost the weight. I was skinny fat though. I hit the gym and got up to 190 lbs and looking much better.Since I have started back loading I have gone the full spectrum from super high to moderate carbs daily to 3 and finally two times a week, but for whatever reason daily lower carb intake is what makes me feel, and look the best. Also like I mentioned gain the most muscle. I'm certainly not lacking muscle If that is the image your getting. I've just packed on more much faster doing what I'm doing now.
Personally I liked this comment the best. c)Too high level stress—go to the gym, don’t beat your spouse, don’t do drugs, don’t drink alcohol to solve your problems 😉
Okay boys and girls,"THE COLLECTION OF STRATEGIES IS POSTED...THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SO FAR." Realize this is the first draft and needs some research articles to actually prove what is going on here, and some more information. A little help on this please.
I know I'm pretty alone on this one but I can't back load big and look lean. I back load 200-300 carbs a night Mon-Fri and wake up looking amazing (male, 5'10", 200 lbs). I have also learned that I gain WAY more muscle doing the small back loads than I did being ULC for almost two years. I have easily put on as much muscle in the last two months dong CBL as I did the first two years working out. I could always get stronger but I never put on mass. I know it is mass and not just water swelling either.
BB, can I call you BB?Anyway, I think that maybe your body type might just work better with the ULC. Did you start out on a particular diet where you couldn't add mass? What sort of training protocol? And typical build...you sound like a hard gainer or ectomorph, but your size would say differently. Could be related to how many calories you were eating before is why I ask. How about a full diet right up or the general pieces? You can PM me if you have them in another format and don't want to write it out. It just seems like a very small amount of CHO to be backloading on...however, hard to tell at this point.
I was fat 40% bf at my biggest and 253 lbs. Then I cut down to 178 lbs doing paleo/primal which is inherently low carb. I would say around 50 grams a day unless I ate the rogue white potato. My calories were approx 3000-3500 a day when I lost the weight. I was skinny fat though. I hit the gym and got up to 190 lbs and looking much better.Since I have started back loading I have gone the full spectrum from super high to moderate carbs daily to 3 and finally two times a week, but for whatever reason daily lower carb intake is what makes me feel, and look the best. Also like I mentioned gain the most muscle. I'm certainly not lacking muscle If that is the image your getting. I've just packed on more much faster doing what I'm doing now.
Well, Don't forget, if you haven't weight trained before and/or were underweight (skinnyfat) You would have beginner gains to consider. I'm not saying low carb bulking doesn't work, but you may find that you will stagnate eventually.
Personally I liked this comment the best. c)Too high level stress—go to the gym, don’t beat your spouse, don’t do drugs, don’t drink alcohol to solve your problems 😉
Okay boys and girls,"THE COLLECTION OF STRATEGIES IS POSTED...THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SO FAR." Realize this is the first draft and needs some research articles to actually prove what is going on here, and some more information. A little help on this please.
LOL, yeah, I end most of my safety briefings very much that same way. I think it would be obvious, but you gotta point it out to some people.
I was fat 40% bf at my biggest and 253 lbs. Then I cut down to 178 lbs doing paleo/primal which is inherently low carb. I would say around 50 grams a day unless I ate the rogue white potato. My calories were approx 3000-3500 a day when I lost the weight. I was skinny fat though. I hit the gym and got up to 190 lbs and looking much better.Since I have started back loading I have gone the full spectrum from super high to moderate carbs daily to 3 and finally two times a week, but for whatever reason daily lower carb intake is what makes me feel, and look the best. Also like I mentioned gain the most muscle. I'm certainly not lacking muscle If that is the image your getting. I've just packed on more much faster doing what I'm doing now.
Did you lose a lot of muscle mass in the process of the paleo dieting. Were you lifting at all during this process?Doing the calculations if you lost no FFM during the paleo diet you would be about 14.7% once you got down to 178lbs. That would still be pretty good, if you didn't lose any muscle mass, but I doubt that you could do it without resistance training of some sort. Most people that resistance train with that kind of load can still make consistent gains of muscle mass, esp., if you've got the fat to lose. Nice job on the weight loss, 75lbs (but of what is important).However, I think you're missing the main point I made at what body type you have? Somatotype--endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph...sounds like endo or maybe a mix of endo-mesomorph. I'm trying to correlate maybe that could indicate a certain level of insulin sensitivity. I read an research article stating that certain somatotypes respond better to low glycemic or high glycemic diets than others...so depending on bodytype you may have problems with too high carbohydrate intake. You will need enough to cause MPS activation and prolong the process, but not enough so you feel lethargic and bloated.
However, I think you're missing the main point I made at what body type you have? Somatotype--endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph...sounds like endo or maybe a mix of endo-mesomorph. I'm trying to correlate maybe that could indicate a certain level of insulin sensitivity. I read an research article stating that certain somatotypes respond better to low glycemic or high glycemic diets than others...so depending on bodytype you may have problems with too high carbohydrate intake. You will need enough to cause MPS activation and prolong the process, but not enough so you feel lethargic and bloated.I wasn't picking up on what you were saying at first but that does make sense now.
Im curious has any specific experiences with problems from eggs?I noticed in the study provided they used poached eggs. I eat plenty of eggs always fried in a ton of fat and notice no difference whether I have them or not.
Okay boys and girls,"THE COLLECTION OF STRATEGIES IS POSTED...THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SO FAR." Realize this is the first draft and needs some research articles to actually prove what is going on here, and some more information. A little help on this please.
Thank you for this. When doing this, should we shoot for "below maintenance level" and go "above" on Carb Nites, or neglect how much we are eating during the ULC (i.e. neglect calories, just match protein and fat 1:1 and go 1 g protein/1 lb lean body mass)?
Hey,We also have this comment from Kiefer:
You can hit the extremely low levels of body fat with CBL, but it needs to become highly refined. Listen to the latest podcast with John Meadows who pretty much stumbled on the path and has been getting great results with it.BioJacked with John MeadowsThe general formula: ULC until training (I wouldn't even worry about vegetables, but would supplement heavily with coconut oil and make beef your main source of protein); With training, consume 200-250 grams of pure carbs with hydrolysates mixed in during and post training. If you choose during, wait 15 to 30 minutes into the training to do so.Obviously, there's more to it than this, but this is 90% of the way there.
Seeking optimal health & performance for myself & others at:
Alex Fergus Coaching - www.AFCoaching.com.auOkay boys and girls,"THE COLLECTION OF STRATEGIES IS POSTED...THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SO FAR." Realize this is the first draft and needs some research articles to actually prove what is going on here, and some more information. A little help on this please.
Thank you for this. When doing this, should we shoot for "below maintenance level" and go "above" on Carb Nites, or neglect how much we are eating during the ULC (i.e. neglect calories, just match protein and fat 1:1 and go 1 g protein/1 lb lean body mass)?
Off first glass I'm not thinking about changing the ULC portion. That part works fine for fat loss. It's the Back Loading that I would worry about. Mostly the problem is when the metabolism starts dropping from ULC dieting. We know it does because people stall out on their bodyfat loss and the body just won't lose anymore. I'm going to try to find some research articles today that would help explain how to increase the T3/T4 production in the body, while on a ULC diet. We know that the feeding status of body influences the metabolism a lot, but there's also interactions with leptin, adipocytokines, blah, blah, blah...a lot of stuff going on. But I can't really say what will help in this scenario since I've only been on CBL for a while, and as for CN I was more in the Anabolic Diet realm, but the implications from both diets are the same (approximately).
Hey,We also have this comment from Kiefer:
You can hit the extremely low levels of body fat with CBL, but it needs to become highly refined. Listen to the latest podcast with John Meadows who pretty much stumbled on the path and has been getting great results with it.BioJacked with John MeadowsThe general formula: ULC until training (I wouldn't even worry about vegetables, but would supplement heavily with coconut oil and make beef your main source of protein); With training, consume 200-250 grams of pure carbs with hydrolysates mixed in during and post training. If you choose during, wait 15 to 30 minutes into the training to do so.Obviously, there's more to it than this, but this is 90% of the way there.
Yes, I think that John and Keifer did a great job on this, but we already know the peri/post workout nutrition is the primary focus. It's what CBL relies on for success; however, some strategies still have to be implemented for the other parts of the day in order to increase fat loss for those dropping under 10%BF. I've posted a question on the Podcast forum, to see if Keifer would respond with some key points on what he looks for when someone has stalled on BF loss. Kind of like a running template. Okay, stalled on BF...1) Check ULC portion of the day for vegetable fats/sugar alcohols/etc; 2) PWO shake (w/o carbs); 3) Backloading only on training days (heavy training days = 300g CHO backload), (light training days = 150g CHO backload)...something like this, a checklist to run down to get the fat loss started off right again.I also noticed another posting for determining your individual levels of CHOs, I'll try and post it if I can find it again.
So, I couldn't remember where I found this reply from Keifer, but I copied it luckily.Recalibrate: I would do this for the cleanest bulk possible.Start at half your carb needs (300/2 = 150g) on training days; 5 grams at night before beg on non-training days , high glcyemic.Keep the non-training day load stable and up the post-training carbs every 2 weeks. So, two weeks at 150; if fat stable (or losing), 200 for two weeks; reassess and increase until BF holds stable. At this point, you will be building mass without fat. Use the off days as "catch ups" from then on out. Some training sessions will require more carbs than others. The off days, catch up and do it right...blow it out. After about a month, you'll probably need to start doing these recalibrations. Oddly enough, when I start smoothing out is when I do a massive carb up on an OFF night." Now realize that Keifer is mentioning the start up calories in the back of CBL. This makes a lot of sense. It's essentially finding out the right amount of CHO that your body can handle, and monitor the progress every two weeks. So, basic point, start off slow with a low level of carbohydrate for two weeks. Monitor progress, ensure you're losing BF, and then up it after two weeks. Just a small amount 50g each time. Then when you level off after two weeks and you're stable, you know exactly how many CHOg you need to consume to stay in anabolism and avoid gaining bodyfat. Then all you have to do is undercut that by 50-100g and you'll be losing BF like crazy. This is assuming that you can handle keeping the other parts of your ULC portion pretty much the same. Small variences shouldn't matter a whole hell of a lot. The body isn't perfect, and neither is our diets, but the consistency is what makes or breaks you. This will be vitally important the lower in BF you drop, as you need more tweeking and strategies to drop more BF. Generally the lower you go, the harder it is to lose more...the body just doesn't like it and it will fight you. That's why I created this posting to help investigate the various methods of lowering BF% to those lower tier numbers.
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