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So, I couldn't remember where I found this reply from Keifer, but I copied it luckily.Recalibrate: I would do this for the cleanest bulk possible.Start at half your carb needs (300/2 = 150g) on training days; 5 grams at night before beg on non-training days , high glcyemic.Keep the non-training day load stable and up the post-training carbs every 2 weeks. So, two weeks at 150; if fat stable (or losing), 200 for two weeks; reassess and increase until BF holds stable. At this point, you will be building mass without fat. Use the off days as "catch ups" from then on out. Some training sessions will require more carbs than others. The off days, catch up and do it right...blow it out. After about a month, you'll probably need to start doing these recalibrations. Oddly enough, when I start smoothing out is when I do a massive carb up on an OFF night."
How do you tell carb needs? Carb needs=(Body weight loss after of the recalibration phase) / 5 ? I don't know where you're getting this divide by 5 idea? It's divide by two, once you have done the prep phase, determine how many calories (s/b: CHO in grams?) you need based on the calculators in the back of the book. Divide by two to start with and modify every two weeks based upon weight loss status.by 5 is amount of carbs you lost while prep phase, cause for every g of carb you loose 4g of water
Okay, I'll bite. First, please explain how you 'lose carbs' during the prep phase... As I see it, you are pretty much supposed to 'lose' ALL carbs from the diet during prep, as you're going keto by design... Second, explain how the math works in adding carbs + water = carbs? That's like saying 1 egg + 4 slices of bacon = 5 eggs. I stand to be corrected, but as someone else already alluded to in the general sense, you seem to be trying to FAR overcomplicate this piece of Kiefer's statement. As already explained, you are merely trying to reduce CHO intake by a sensible, albeit somewhat arbitrary, amount so you can stop the excessive/unnecessary fat gain, leaving yourself room to start bumping up slowly again until you reach BF 'equilibrium'. To be fair and for the sake of learning and keeeping an open mind, please elaborate/explain how the CHO:H2O ratio and then adding these unlike variables plays into the reduction of CHO when reassessing base CHO needs for LBM gain while minimizing BF gain.
by 5 is amount of carbs you lost while prep phase, cause for every g of carb you loose 4g of water
Okay, I'll bite. First, please explain how you 'lose carbs' during the prep phase... As I see it, you are pretty much supposed to 'lose' ALL carbs from the diet during prep, as you're going keto by design... Second, explain how the math works in adding carbs + water = carbs? That's like saying 1 egg + 4 slices of bacon = 5 eggs. I stand to be corrected, but as someone else already alluded to in the general sense, you seem to be trying to FAR overcomplicate this piece of Kiefer's statement. As already explained, you are merely trying to reduce CHO intake by a sensible, albeit somewhat arbitrary, amount so you can stop the excessive/unnecessary fat gain, leaving yourself room to start bumping up slowly again until you reach BF 'equilibrium'. To be fair and for the sake of learning and keeeping an open mind, please elaborate/explain how the CHO:H2O ratio and then adding these unlike variables plays into the reduction of CHO when reassessing base CHO needs for LBM gain while minimizing BF gain.
I think what is being referred to here is that for every gram of carbohydrates that the body stores, it can store up to 4 grams of water alongside it.So if you drop a gram of carboshydrates, then you drop up to 4 grams of water as well
I with martykoch01 on this one guys. You're making this way to complicated. I don't think the 5g refers to anything specific other than 5g of high glycemic CHOs on your non-workout days for the short spike for getting to sleep and engaging hGH faster. That is all.In acknowledging that H20 will follow CHO around, this is not going to be a very reliable measure. If that's the case then I will be able back load 500g, because I lose about 5.0lbs of water everytime I workout. I'm not sure how the Delta Table is configured initially, but the numbers do not add up for what you're tracking for 4g H20/ 1g CHO.The amount of water stored H20g / CHOg would be impossible to calculate, let alone track through bodyweight. Think about it it's hot outside, you sweat, your not burning extra CHOs are you? No. What if you're exercising when it's cold? Your body still sweats, but not a lot. Are you burning CHOs? Yes. The body is 80-85% water. You can show CHO regulation this way. Unless you're doing a dual x-ray absorptiometry scan after your workouts, no way.
I with martykoch01 on this one guys. You're making this way to complicated. I don't think the 5g refers to anything specific other than 5g of high glycemic CHOs on your non-workout days for the short spike for getting to sleep and engaging hGH faster. That is all.In acknowledging that H20 will follow CHO around, this is not going to be a very reliable measure. If that's the case then I will be able back load 500g, because I lose about 5.0lbs of water everytime I workout. I'm not sure how the Delta Table is configured initially, but the numbers do not add up for what you're tracking for 4g H20/ 1g CHO.The amount of water stored H20g / CHOg would be impossible to calculate, let alone track through bodyweight. Think about it it's hot outside, you sweat, your not burning extra CHOs are you? No. What if you're exercising when it's cold? Your body still sweats, but not a lot. Are you burning CHOs? Yes. The body is 80-85% water. You can show CHO regulation this way. Unless you're doing a dual x-ray absorptiometry scan after your workouts, no way.
I think your counter argument becomes more complicated than it needs toThere does appear to be merit in the argument about the body "losing" CHO. Isn't that what happens when you go low-carb? You drop weight fast due to loss of glycogen and waterIE if you lose 11lbs during the prep, you've lost 5kg. The carb recommendation for that is 1000g CHO, which would be exactly 1/5 of your delta weight. This relationship is pretty consistent across the board (loss of 10kg has a 2000g baseline)So the idea that a loss of 1g CHO (or perhaps glycogen) brings with it a loss of 4g water seems to make sense. If you're going to bring dehydration into equation, sure that's going to skew things, but that's not what's being discussed.Losing water through sweat or dehydration =/= loss of glycogenLoss of glycogen = loss of waterI've heard things from my coach that the amount of glycogen lost (and thus water weight lost during prep) is dependent on your muscle mass, so the more muscle you have the more weight you'll lose as a result, and as such the more CHO it takes to replenish the glycogen. Also explains why he can drop 10% BW for a weigh in rather easily
I with martykoch01 on this one guys. You're making this way to complicated. I don't think the 5g refers to anything specific other than 5g of high glycemic CHOs on your non-workout days for the short spike for getting to sleep and engaging hGH faster. That is all.
Saw the following bit of information on this thread, posted by Gremlin:http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3672.msg38549;boardseen#new
Samarai Diet:1. Rebound hypoglycemia triggers increase hGH at night; keeping insulin spike short and high will increase fat burning potential at night due to high hGH
One of the few podcasts I haven't listened to ::) Go figure.The 5g of high GI carbs after a day of ULC would most likely trigger rebound hypoglycemia. Seems like a plausible explanation for Kiefer's 5g of carbs recommendation, like Gremlin was saying.
Hey gremlin or anyone else, could you guys take a look at this http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3675.0 and give any suggestions you guys have.
I think your counter argument becomes more complicated than it needs toThere does appear to be merit in the argument about the body "losing" CHO. Isn't that what happens when you go low-carb? You drop weight fast due to loss of glycogen and waterIE if you lose 11lbs during the prep, you've lost 5kg. The carb recommendation for that is 1000g CHO, which would be exactly 1/5 of your delta weight. This relationship is pretty consistent across the board (loss of 10kg has a 2000g baseline)So the idea that a loss of 1g CHO (or perhaps glycogen) brings with it a loss of 4g water seems to make sense. If you're going to bring dehydration into equation, sure that's going to skew things, but that's not what's being discussed.Losing water through sweat or dehydration =/= loss of glycogenLoss of glycogen = loss of waterI've heard things from my coach that the amount of glycogen lost (and thus water weight lost during prep) is dependent on your muscle mass, so the more muscle you have the more weight you'll lose as a result, and as such the more CHO it takes to replenish the glycogen. Also explains why he can drop 10% BW for a weigh in rather easily
Really, I get what you're trying to say, but still think it is not the point trying to be put forth.Not to play semantics, but your body doesn't store 'carbs,' per se, they are consumed and then converted to something else, glucose, etc. until as an end result they refill all glycogen stores and then finally, if in an overfed state, bodyfat. So to say you 'lose CHO' is, at best, confusing. Even so, you're still missing the point of what Kiefer was saying. He is not in anyway trying to redetermine the amount of baseline carbs with an equation. The equation is incidental to the point of, "Cut your current carbs in half which I know will halt bodyfat accretion and then add them back in biweekly until bodyfat holds constant while still gaining overall weight."Was anybody able to listen to the podcast to hear if the question was addressed? I have a post out looking to see if anybody made a recording because I am unable to listen live from work (blogtalkradio is blocked).
I with martykoch01 on this one guys. You're making this way to complicated. I don't think the 5g refers to anything specific other than 5g of high glycemic CHOs on your non-workout days for the short spike for getting to sleep and engaging hGH faster. That is all.In acknowledging that H20 will follow CHO around, this is not going to be a very reliable measure. If that's the case then I will be able back load 500g, because I lose about 5.0lbs of water everytime I workout. I'm not sure how the Delta Table is configured initially, but the numbers do not add up for what you're tracking for 4g H20/ 1g CHO.The amount of water stored H20g / CHOg would be impossible to calculate, let alone track through bodyweight. Think about it it's hot outside, you sweat, your not burning extra CHOs are you? No. What if you're exercising when it's cold? Your body still sweats, but not a lot. Are you burning CHOs? Yes. The body is 80-85% water. You can show CHO regulation this way. Unless you're doing a dual x-ray absorptiometry scan after your workouts, no way.
I think your counter argument becomes more complicated than it needs toThere does appear to be merit in the argument about the body "losing" CHO. Isn't that what happens when you go low-carb? You drop weight fast due to loss of glycogen and waterIE if you lose 11lbs during the prep, you've lost 5kg. The carb recommendation for that is 1000g CHO, which would be exactly 1/5 of your delta weight. This relationship is pretty consistent across the board (loss of 10kg has a 2000g baseline)So the idea that a loss of 1g CHO (or perhaps glycogen) brings with it a loss of 4g water seems to make sense. If you're going to bring dehydration into equation, sure that's going to skew things, but that's not what's being discussed.Losing water through sweat or dehydration =/= loss of glycogenLoss of glycogen = loss of waterI've heard things from my coach that the amount of glycogen lost (and thus water weight lost during prep) is dependent on your muscle mass, so the more muscle you have the more weight you'll lose as a result, and as such the more CHO it takes to replenish the glycogen. Also explains why he can drop 10% BW for a weigh in rather easily
Like I said earlier this is a ballpark estimate. There's no way that I know of to calculate the amount of CHO stored within the muscle tissue. If you wanted to do that you'd have to know exactly how much muscle mass you have, how much glycogen you've burned, and then run the calculations, oh yeah, and the type of muscle mass is important too. Type I isn't going to store as much glycogen as Type IIb/IIx. It's an estimate! You guys are killing me.
Hey gremlin or anyone else, could you guys take a look at this http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3675.0 and give any suggestions you guys have.
bbuchan,Sounds like a conudrum, but here's what I would try...1. Get rid of the cottage cheese before bed. You want a fast spike and fast decline in insulin levels. Sleep okay?2. You need more kcals...I think you've sliced your overall kcals too low and your body just doesn't have enough extra to burn. I eat more than you do at my mid-day meal. You've got to give your body something to burn. I was stalling out before b/c I wasn't sure on how much pro:fats to be consuming before, now I'm consistently getting a drop with calipers.3. Have coffee earlier in the morning. I'm having mine right as I wake up. Then have some more with some coconut oil about 8:30-9:30 so you help release more ketone production. I was skeptic of this at first, but it works.4. Pre-Bed = 1-2 scoops whey isolate + 1T coconut oil (spikes insulin and stores--I don't have research to back this up, but it seems to knock me right out and my sleep is superb) combine with 3mg of melatonin to really sleep solidly.5. HIIT--> Just because Keifer doesn't want you doing long distance cardio, you should still be incorporating some sprinting 1-3days/week. HIIT it hard! Fasted...exercise is still the stimulus that makes this work.6. Give it two weeks with the improvements before switching anything around again. Unless you're getting show ready, then we've got problems. General advice 5-14 days for changes at times. Sometimes you just fluctuate for a while before coming back down. Your body is pretty smart...you've gotta be smarter.7. Before you implement all these take a day off and eat ad libitum if you can. All day, just eat whatever you want, but keep it fairly clean, not too much junk...then ULC for 2-3 days. I'm just looking for a response out of your body. (Sometimes you just need a break).
Link to first page with updated strategies: http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/forum/index.php?topic=3411.0
I haven't tried doing this yet, but what do you guys think about low protein days on non workout days? Low protein as in 1g per kg of bodyweight.
Sorry, I'm a bit slow into reading this… take in 5 g high glycemic monosaccharide before passing out on a ULC day to boost fat loss? I.e.- dextrose, rilose? Would maltodextrin work? And when to take this before sleeping is another query
Honestly, I think the 5g of carbs would be mostly pointless…I understand the whole high insulin spike to cause a hypoglycemia rebound but I highly doubt the 5g of dextrose would cause much of anything. That's like, 1.5 teaspoons.I think 5g of leucine makes much more sense, seeing as leucine stimulates insulin and 5g of the causes the maximum effect from it...I really hope that all made sense, I'm about to sleep after a backloaded and I'm getting pretty zoned out at this point, haah.
Honestly, I think the 5g of carbs would be mostly pointless...I understand the whole high insulin spike to cause a hypoglycemia rebound but I highly doubt the 5g of dextrose would cause much of anything. That's like, 1.5 teaspoons.I think 5g of leucine makes much more sense, seeing as leucine stimulates insulin and 5g of the causes the maximum effect from it...I really hope that all made sense, I'm about to sleep after a backloaded and I'm getting pretty zoned out at this point, haah.
bueno idea? sounds like it.
Honestly, I think the 5g of carbs would be mostly pointless...I understand the whole high insulin spike to cause a hypoglycemia rebound but I highly doubt the 5g of dextrose would cause much of anything. That's like, 1.5 teaspoons.I think 5g of leucine makes much more sense, seeing as leucine stimulates insulin and 5g of the causes the maximum effect from it...I really hope that all made sense, I'm about to sleep after a backloaded and I'm getting pretty zoned out at this point, haah.
bueno idea? sounds like it.
Yeah, I like that idea better too. I've been doing something similar on ULC nights. Whey Isolate + 1T coconut oil. I feel drowsy in about 20-30 minutes. I'm going to make tranquilizer darts out of it for unruly Soldiers with 3mg melatonin.
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