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Can you give me the number of carbs and fats you take on t days and off days? What's the goal with your diet? Fat loss? Muscle building? Both?
6 days a week, 400-500 g of carbs, currently trying to get up to 600 while roughly maintaining weight. On my lone off day, 2-300 g depending how gruesome the next workout will be. Between 40 and 80 g of fat, protein around 150-160 g sometimes a bit more. I essentially am always looking to add a bit of muscle and lose a bit of fat, but my main focus is my training which takes care of both. Also sustaining a very high level of conditioning. Keep in mind, I often train twice a day and my more endurance type sessions would kill most people, so I am probably still not eating enough. 5'7 154-158 pounds on any given day..body fat..I do not have an accurate measurement, but I am a mountain of veins at this point. Trust me the minutia and trying to do everything per the book is futile when you have to drink and eat aggressively for such a high training load.
Training days for me is usually anywhere from 250-340 carbs depending on the workout itself and the time I lift and fats stay at 65-110 depending on carb amount.Off days are 90-130 carbs and around 100-130 fat.Goal is currently recomp/fat loss and to support my training. Im gonna up both carbs and fats gradually because I actually think Im undereating a bit.Im 6' 190lbs at around 11% body fat currently and train 5 days a week with the odd HIIT or other cardio thrown in if I feel up to it.
Thanks guys. I just want to know something:On off days, do you aim for the same amount of calories or you're a bit lower.On off days, you reduce you carbs by 1/2, do you simultaneaously up the fats to "fill in" the caloric deficit so that everyday you consume the same number of calories?
Nope, on off days I eat lighter which means less overall calories. There is no point in decreasing carbs if you are going to increase fat at the same time, it defeats the purpose. I do try not to keep fats too low on off days for satiety and hormonal health reasons, but the modest increase is not equivalent to the drop in carbs.Also the whole eating more or less depending on training is a comfort deal, I have done good eating the same amounts every day or going a bit up and down. Again it depends how often you train. I just take opportunities to eat a bit less when I can because in general I am just eating to survive training.
Nope, on off days I eat lighter which means less overall calories. There is no point in decreasing carbs if you are going to increase fat at the same time, it defeats the purpose. I do try not to keep fats too low on off days for satiety and hormonal health reasons, but the modest increase is not equivalent to the drop in carbs.Also the whole eating more or less depending on training is a comfort deal, I have done good eating the same amounts every day or going a bit up and down. Again it depends how often you train. I just take opportunities to eat a bit less when I can because in general I am just eating to survive training.
+1 to everything Stiff said. It really just depends. Ive found that I require less food overall on non training days. I drop protein a little, increase fat, and decrease carbs a good bit, which for me still equates to less food. Ive also found that the more intense the workload or the leaner you get, the more carbs you can get away with on off days, granted you keep it reasonable and stick to as much glucose/starchy foods as possible. Potatoes, rice, dextrose, and maybe even a ripe banana are my go to carbs on off days and training days as well for the most part.
I tried a backload on a off day last week ( sunday night ) , I didn't really like it because I had the feeling of “cheating” in a way.I don't really feel that backloading on off days is good for health, Insulin is ok after high intensity training but on off days ? I ate white rice with a banana ( 120 g carbs ). On monday morning, It's hard to tell but I think I was a bit watery.So I don't really know if I'm going to backload again tonight?I just want to know something about muscle's glycogen, I search a lot on the internet but i found nothing except that Kiefer said if you train for hypertrophy, you need to train with the glycogen reserves full. How long does the glycogen stays in the muscles if you don't deplete it with weight training or cardio? My last backload was friday night after training with weights, I've done nothing saturday and sunday. My next workout is monday night do you think the muscles are still saturated with glycogen and I can stay low carb up until monday night and backload afterwards? Or it is better to backload on sunday night to assure that my glycogen stores are full for monday night workout?
I tried a backload on a off day last week ( sunday night ) , I didn't really like it because I had the feeling of "cheating" in a way.I don't really feel that backloading on off days is good for health, Insulin is ok after high intensity training but on off days ? I ate white rice with a banana ( 120 g carbs ). On monday morning, It's hard to tell but I think I was a bit watery.So I don't really know if I'm going to backload again tonight?I just want to know something about muscle's glycogen, I search a lot on the internet but i found nothing except that Kiefer said if you train for hypertrophy, you need to train with the glycogen reserves full. How long does the glycogen stays in the muscles if you don't deplete it with weight training or cardio? My last backload was friday night after training with weights, I've done nothing saturday and sunday. My next workout is monday night do you think the muscles are still saturated with glycogen and I can stay low carb up until monday night and backload afterwards? Or it is better to backload on sunday night to assure that my glycogen stores are full for monday night workout?
In regards to off day backloads, I could tell you more if I knew your training type, height, weight, estimated body fat %, and other physical activity, as well as your goals. When I backload on off days, Im really strict with overall macros, while still making sure I eat enough. I separate my last ULC meal and my backload meal by anywhere from 3-4 hours. Also, I've found that if I add a little fat in with the carb meal, like a tbsp or so of butter or a couple eggs, that I sleep better and I wake up looking tighter. As far as tonight, I would have at least a small backload if your last one was Friday. Chances are you are already a little depleted and you'll deplete even more throughout today, tonight, and during your session tomorrow. Regardless of training or not, most people, especially men, deplete glycogen in 3-4 days, so the body still utilizes it to some degree, just not to the same extent as engaging in glycolitic activities. I would do about 100-120g tonight, using pure glucose such as rice, potatoes and dextrose. Just be sure to keep a closer eye on overall macros/calories. If you wake up watery tomorrow morning, just dial the PWO carbs back a bit.
Great info, thanks. Well, I'm 5'10, 180 pounds 10 % Body fat. I train 5 times a week. Rest saturday and sunday.I train with moderate weight intensively with 1 min rest between for an hour.I found a video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/9539353/carb_back_loading_post_workout_when_to_eat_carbs_explained/Kiefer says that the carbs you ingest post workout are not to recuperate from that workout but there are for the next workout the day after. So he says if you train 3X a week, monday/wednesday/friday => Sunday: CBL for monday's workout;Monday: No carbs just a high insulin shake ( WPI, hydrolisat, leucine )Tuesday: CBL for wednesday workout;Wednesday: Same as mondayThursday: CBL for friday workoutFriday: Same as Monday because no more workout this week.Saturday: ULCSunday: CBL for monday…..But in his book he says to backload post workout?
As with everything, find what works best for you.Try both ways for a couple of weeks each and see which gives you better progress toward your personal goals. It's that simple.Personally, when I'm wanting to lose fat, I prefer to go into workouts somewhat glycogen depleted, so I'd go the PWO carbs route. But, having full glycogen stores creates a better anabolic environment, so I'd either be BL'ing everyday, or nights before lifting (as in your example) if I were trying to gain size.Though... if I were trying to gain, I'd probably be working out more than MWF, too.
Some people see SA and DB as one diet, so their goal is to gain muscle and losing fat at the same time. It's my goal too, i don't know if it's possible. In this video, to summary kiefer says to backload only if you train the next day but he doesn't say if it is for morning workouts or evenings.After viewing this video, I was thinking of doing this:Sunday: BL for monday workoutMonday: BL for tuesday workoutTuesday: BL for wednesday workoutWednesday: BL for thursday workoutThursday: BL for friday workoutFriday: no carbs just WPI + Hydrolysat + leucine for insuline spike but no carbs because I'm not training on saturdaySaturday: ULCSunday: BL for mondayI don't know if it's really optimal!?Or I'll probably have BL on friday and add a HIIT workout saturday morning to deplete the glycogen. What do you think of that?
If you're 10% body fat, you have a little more give if you choose to backload on off days, especially if you're trying to gain size. Based on the calculators I found online, which I take with a major grain of salt, I'm about 11-13% right now based on measurements I put in and I backload every day, and Ive finally started leaning out, granted the program Im following is the most taxing one Ive ever done.Personally, I would try to backload after a session instead of the night before. This way, you can take an advantage of glut4 and the margin for error is a lot greater. Again though, its whatever works best for you, you're schedule and your goals. Using my experience as an example, I can get away with ~300 carbs after an afternoon session and about ~350 every now and then if the workout was really tough and still wake up tight the next day. If I'm backloading to prepare for a morning session, I can do about 200-250g and even 250 is pushing it for me. So there is a difference when you consider the effect that glut4 has on carb utilization.
He says it in his book as well, I didn't remember that part:CHAPTER 19: SLAM THE CARBS p.67" Research shows that full glycogen reserves help limit the protein breakdown caused by training sessions and increases glycogen usage during the following days training session. Once again, replenishing glycogen is not to recover from today's training but to prepare for the next day's."That's what Kiefer says in his book. SO CBL is for next workout.
He says it in his book as well, I didn't remember that part:CHAPTER 19: SLAM THE CARBS p.67" Research shows that full glycogen reserves help limit the protein breakdown caused by training sessions and increases glycogen usage during the following days training session. Once again, replenishing glycogen is not to recover from today's training but to prepare for the next day's."That's what Kiefer says in his book. SO CBL is for next workout.
Nobody is debating you.It kinda seems like you're just wanting people to justify the schedule you want to do.So, as I said earlier:
As with everything, find what works best for you.Try both ways for a couple of weeks each and see which gives you better progress toward your personal goals.
There is no black and white right and wrong. TRY what you're thinking for 4 weeks and track some markers of progress. -Don't make any progress? Change things. -Happy with progress? Don't change anything until you're not happy with progress.
He says it in his book as well, I didn't remember that part:CHAPTER 19: SLAM THE CARBS p.67" Research shows that full glycogen reserves help limit the protein breakdown caused by training sessions and increases glycogen usage during the following days training session. Once again, replenishing glycogen is not to recover from today's training but to prepare for the next day's."That's what Kiefer says in his book. SO CBL is for next workout.
While the book has a ton of great information, through trial and error Ive found that I do better when I stick to the basics and tailor the details to make it work for me and my goals. You'll probably have to do the same in order to make it work for you personally. I've been following this lifestyle religiously since January and I'm just now dialing everything in perfectly. Im also still learning every week about how much food, what types of food, and food timing works for me. Like TCB said, just try different things for a little while, and if you're not happy, then feel free to switch it up.
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