- This topic has 59 voices and 180 replies.
-
Posts
-
I suppose it comes down to this - what are you prepared to do/take to get the results you need. So you could take hydrolysate AND isolate but if you have just isolate - that's ok. You could take some caffeine powder PWO or you could brew yourself another coffee too, you could chew nicotine gum to maximize gains/losses or you could stick with CBL or CNS and continue along the way you're going. No mention of nicotine gum in CNS or CBL - lots of people getting great results. Yeah I know, it'll probably get included in CBL XP. Well there's a whole heap of stuff I don't include from CBL like pepto-pro, hydrolysate and Moon Over My Hammy but I'm still getting the results I was looking for.If Kiefer started taking intravenous supplementation to optimize fat burning, would you? Yeah I know, we're just trying to squeeze every last ounce of optimization into these diet protocols. I'm just saying, while I'm sure it all holds up in a court of science I'm not about to start supplementing with yet more processed shit. A "clean delivery system"? More fool me I guess.
And it would raise questions too complex for me to go in to with my wife. I've already had the "no breakfast? You HAVE to eat breakfast - it's the most important meal of the day!!", "Eat junk at night?? Are you kidding me?!? If you get fat I'm divorcing you!", "What the f**k are you taking caffeine for!? It'll give you a heart attack!!" - some people can't be told different to what they may have read in a newspaper/magazine. I could do without having to explain why I have nicotine gum in my gym bag.....truth be known.
Has anyone else yet experienced that burning feeling in your mouth yet and has anyone felt no difference? I havnt really at all but its worth a crack
Has anyone else yet experienced that burning feeling in your mouth yet and has anyone felt no difference? I havnt really at all but its worth a crack
Yeah you SHOULD get a tingling from it.
And it would raise questions too complex for me to go in to with my wife. I've already had the "no breakfast? You HAVE to eat breakfast - it's the most important meal of the day!!", "Eat junk at night?? Are you kidding me?!? If you get fat I'm divorcing you!", "What the f**k are you taking caffeine for!? It'll give you a heart attack!!" - some people can't be told different to what they may have read in a newspaper/magazine. I could do without having to explain why I have nicotine gum in my gym bag.....truth be known.
"some people" is your wife. If my boyfriend wasn't supportive of me and refused to be open minded, well the relationship wouldn't last. :/ I really hope she'll support you as time goes on...and hopefully results will win her over.
And it would raise questions too complex for me to go in to with my wife. I've already had the "no breakfast? You HAVE to eat breakfast - it's the most important meal of the day!!", "Eat junk at night?? Are you kidding me?!? If you get fat I'm divorcing you!", "What the f**k are you taking caffeine for!? It'll give you a heart attack!!" - some people can't be told different to what they may have read in a newspaper/magazine. I could do without having to explain why I have nicotine gum in my gym bag.....truth be known.
I'm sorry but that's absolute bullshitPay her no mind. Keep getting ripped. Then when you're all cockdieseled out and if she still doubts you, then just divorce her and start banging long-legged lingerie models. Then you will be the victor.
Haha, I'm sure she'd appreciate that cheers! This isn't couples therapy though – I'm a Personal Trainer: I've already learned that while I may know more about exercise and nutrition than my partner, I'm not about to critique her diet if she wants to splurge at the wrong times, if she wants to do crunches for a flat tummy or if she wants to run for fat loss. She doesn't do any of those things enough to warrant me correcting her and saying, “Well actually…..”, She's happy with what she's doing and I'm happy with her worrying about me if I start to supplement with something she has absolutely no idea about. She's concerned for my welfare at the end of the day, and is in no way interested in being sat down for 20 minutes to listen to the science of nicotine and fat loss! I don't blame her - I couldn't give a shit about the "science" behind 3 strokes for applying nail varnish. Anyway moving on -After reading the article, while the research is compelling and despite what my partner may think about supplementing with nicotine(no matter what the studies say), I'm still pretty happy with my plan concerning CBL and don't feel it necessary to include nicotine gum just yet. Right now my interpretation of the protocol does not include any sort of hydrolysate, pepto pro or otherwise, again this would optimize the plan for sure but like Kiefer says in the Hyson articles, he's just trying to squeeze the absolute most out of this protocol by supplying us with the absolute bleeding edge in scientific research - it's not "absolutely necessary" to get results but it will help - "Kiefer: If I had to make it quick and simple, I’d go with whey isolate and leucine. Creatine too. That’s dirt cheap."Awesome, but again without nicotine and hydrolysate I don't consider my plan sub-optimal for me, at least. I've changed my peri-workout nutrition massively since reading CBL by supplementing with an isolate over a concentrate, including caffeine pre and post workout, timing leucine correctly:After reading an article by t-nation a few years back about speeding up the keto reorientation phase by slamming 5g of leucine every hour of an evening whilst cutting carbs out earlier in the day I thought that it was the best way. Did I make a mistake by not reading the research to back this up? No idea if it worked for me - perhaps if it was an optimal way of doing the prep phase then Kiefer would've included it in CBL. I get the feeling that if he thought it was, he would've mentioned it. Check out the article here on speeding up "ketosis"(do they mean ketogenesis?):http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/isolated_pecs_big_shoulders_and_instant_ketosisSo right now while I'm intrigued by the research on nicotine I'm happy to sit back and see the objective results from people who are willing to give it a go. It will be difficult for it to be objective as the power of suggestion can be massively overwhelming - monkey see, monkey do, emperors new clothes, the placebo effect and so on. The very best of luck to those taking it on - I can't wait to see how everyone gets on with it.
Here is the gist of the article by Thib using leucine to accelerate the keto adaptation. Critique from the educated very welcome:Christian Thibaudeau: "A safer (and legal) way to accomplish [keto] is to use Leucine for the same purpose as insulin. Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid. It leads to a large (but within your own natural limits) insulin spike. If you don't consume any carbs 1 hour prior and up to 2 hours after ingesting leucine, your blood glucose will lower significantly, helping you reach ketosis faster.You can do this on your carb-up day, which would look like this:Morning (1-2 meals): carbs from fruit to fill liver glycogen firstBetween 11 am and 2 pm (2 meals): carbs from starchy sources (rice, yams, potatoes, etc.)Mid-afternoon meal (around 3-4 pm): last carb meal of the day... high glycemic carbsAnd from 4 pm you only have protein and fat along with ingesting 5-10g of leucine every 2 hours (5 pm, 7 pm, 9 pm, 11 pm for example). The key is no carbs after 3-4 pm.This will help you get into ketosis much faster and it will be both easier and more effective to diet down while in a low carb state."How might that work during the prep phase? I dunno if it will - perhaps Kiefer or someone else could chime in and comment.4pm Workout5pm Hyper shake (no carbs)7pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs) and a ULC meal9pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs)11pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs) plus bedtime mealGetting off topic a bit(nicotine), apologies.
hah, I remember reading this article. I grabbed a strip from one of my co-workers (who 'quits' every few months and buys a new pouch of drum the next day). although I smoked a few years ago and thus figured I'd have a decent tolerance, the only noticeable effects I experienced were:
- wanting to poop during my workout
- feeling like poop during my workout
not for me, I guess.
Hahaha
No BUT he did say that Nicotine use followed by movement increased it's thermogenic effect.So i'm going with tomorrow, Gum and Caffeine upon waking, then again gum in the early afternoon.But i backload only at night, not post workout so i'm not sure if that would help you.
He'll have an article about up soon. He had a date set up for it, but we all know that a set date never happens ;D
He'll have an article about up soon. He had a date set up for it, but we all know that a set date never happens ;D
It's up now.
He'll have an article about up soon. He had a date set up for it, but we all know that a set date never happens ;D
It's up now.
*face palm*...thank you
Here is the gist of the article by Thib using leucine to accelerate the keto adaptation. Critique from the educated very welcome:Christian Thibaudeau: "A safer (and legal) way to accomplish [keto] is to use Leucine for the same purpose as insulin. Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid. It leads to a large (but within your own natural limits) insulin spike. If you don't consume any carbs 1 hour prior and up to 2 hours after ingesting leucine, your blood glucose will lower significantly, helping you reach ketosis faster.You can do this on your carb-up day, which would look like this:Morning (1-2 meals): carbs from fruit to fill liver glycogen firstBetween 11 am and 2 pm (2 meals): carbs from starchy sources (rice, yams, potatoes, etc.)Mid-afternoon meal (around 3-4 pm): last carb meal of the day... high glycemic carbsAnd from 4 pm you only have protein and fat along with ingesting 5-10g of leucine every 2 hours (5 pm, 7 pm, 9 pm, 11 pm for example). The key is no carbs after 3-4 pm.This will help you get into ketosis much faster and it will be both easier and more effective to diet down while in a low carb state."How might that work during the prep phase? I dunno if it will - perhaps Kiefer or someone else could chime in and comment.4pm Workout5pm Hyper shake (no carbs)7pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs) and a ULC meal9pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs)11pm 0.5 hyper shake(no carbs) plus bedtime mealGetting off topic a bit(nicotine), apologies.
Thanks for that info. I'm gonna do another prep phase after the Christmas/NYE period of which will involve copious amounts of drinking and partying. Will need to refresh for the New Year, anything to speed up keto is great!Back on topic, i've been taking nicotine for about 2 weeks now. Using about 4x 2mg pieces every day combined with caffeine. One in morning, one before my LISS and protein meal at 1pm, a piece pre-Wo, and 1 after dinner. I feel as if it's working great, but it's hard to quantify because i've also been using natty test boosters & estrogen blockers and have been well on track with my diet & am on CBL SA.One word of advice though is to be careful with how much you take pre-WO. I took 4mg once and i'm not a very big guy. Let's just say i had the scariest workout session of my life haha. My heart rate was going crazy, particularly after every set. Fastest i have ever felt my heartbeat go. Pump was also intense, like my muscles swelled up as hard as rocks and wouldn't deflate. I did legs and had to stop because the intense pressure of doing legs raised my heartrate through the roof and i was genuinely a little scared i'd pass out or something infront of everyone in the gym. Have cut back down to 2mg and all has been good. I definitely feel as if nicotine helps, but again, it's hard to say how much so because i'm going at this program from all directions and have a lot of contributing factors to my results 😀
I've been using it in the AM with coffee for it's nootropic effect and as a part of my pre-workout for, probably close to 2 years…after reading the T-Nation article anyway. Didn't know there was a bunch of literature to back it up as a super fat burner combo, so that's kinda nice.I did do one "hard" diet(in the sense of a big cal deficit, it was physically hard to do) in this time which involved long fasting periods and used it for it's hunger blunting effects if I got really hungry at work. So I know it works that way too.Time for some sciencey reading I think.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.