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I did CBL before but because of various reasons I started over (incl. prep fase) on 1st of June 2013. Before starting over I had a period of 4 weeks of “normal” diet.I like the result that I have CBL, until now and I have few doubts whereby I think my food consumption (timing) can be better.Here are my doubts and I hope someone can help me;1#. Every day around 17:00PM I have this hunger feeling and low energy in the sense of dizziness when standup to quick. When training on that day I have the strong feeling that I can perform better but it doesn't happen. The hunger feeling subsides during training until after training. It does not matter if I had a CBL night the day before. Rest days are the same but I do not train, so I have to be careful not to eat too much. In the mornings I have no hunger feeling. I am guessing that this is not normal and if any of you have an idea why this happens and how to resolve it I would appreciate it?2#. I have still trouble figuring out if I had enough carbs when CBL. The bloated or flat rule doesn't help. In my opinion I am always flat. Maybe this is because I have only 2 hour of CBL night before I crash in to bed. Any experience you might have regarding this is much appreciated.3#. Does having 30 grams of protein from whole foods give me an insulin spike? Or does it only count for supplements?4#. SA has the property of higher fat loss and non to moderate muscle gain. How can I make sure that what I am doing has more of a muscle gain effect?Height: 1.73 meterWeight before prep. day: 77 kgWeight after prep. day: 73 kgBaseline carbs (Weight-Delta chart): 727 gramsCarbs before training: less than 10 grams a dayProtein consumption: between 110 and 128 gramsCurrent BF %: approx. 14%Body type: MesomorphCBL protocol: SATraining: 3 to 4 times heavy weight.Training time: 08:30PMRest day: 1 or 3 and sometimes 4 rest days.In the attachment you will find a food consumption list of my typical training day and rest days.I stripped away the vegetables for easy reading but I eat plenty of them at lunch and dinner. I have knowledge which vegetables have high starch and/or sugar content and when in doubt I have the means to find out. When CBL after training, I use high GI food that have high GL values.Many thanks in forward.
I did CBL before but because of various reasons I started over (incl. prep fase) on 1st of June 2013. Before starting over I had a period of 4 weeks of “normal” diet.I like the result that I have CBL, until now and I have few doubts whereby I think my food consumption (timing) can be better.Here are my doubts and I hope someone can help me;1#. Every day around 17:00PM I have this hunger feeling and low energy in the sense of dizziness when standup to quick. When training on that day I have the strong feeling that I can perform better but it doesn't happen. The hunger feeling subsides during training until after training. It does not matter if I had a CBL night the day before. Rest days are the same but I do not train, so I have to be careful not to eat too much. In the mornings I have no hunger feeling. I am guessing that this is not normal and if any of you have an idea why this happens and how to resolve it I would appreciate it? You could try eating more food during the day. This would align with another recommendation of intaking overall more calories (protein esp).2#. I have still trouble figuring out if I had enough carbs when CBL. The bloated or flat rule doesn't help. In my opinion I am always flat. Maybe this is because I have only 2 hour of CBL night before I crash in to bed. Any experience you might have regarding this is much appreciated. What's the most amount of carbs you've taken in? What kind of training do you do? Chances are if you are continually feeling flat you are either 1) overcritical or 2) not eating enough carbs. Either way judge the amount of carbs your taking in on your training. If training is tough up the carbs.3#. Does having 30 grams of protein from whole foods give me an insulin spike? Or does it only count for supplements? Common sense would tell me that 30g of protein (by itself) from anything will cause an insulin response. This is just my guess, mind you. Add in a 1:1 protein to fat ratio and the response will be blunted.4#. SA has the property of higher fat loss and non to moderate muscle gain. How can I make sure that what I am doing has more of a muscle gain effect? 1. Eat more protein. 2. Get on DB (you're under 15% bf). 3. Eat more food.Height: 1.73 meterWeight before prep. day: 77 kgWeight after prep. day: 73 kgBaseline carbs (Weight-Delta chart): 727 gramsCarbs before training: less than 10 grams a dayProtein consumption: between 110 and 128 gramsCurrent BF %: approx. 14%Body type: MesomorphCBL protocol: SATraining: 3 to 4 times heavy weight.Training time: 08:30PMRest day: 1 or 3 and sometimes 4 rest days.In the attachment you will find a food consumption list of my typical training day and rest days.I stripped away the vegetables for easy reading but I eat plenty of them at lunch and dinner. I have knowledge which vegetables have high starch and/or sugar content and when in doubt I have the means to find out. When CBL after training, I use high GI food that have high GL values.Many thanks in forward.
https://one.body.io/forums/topic/inchxinch-b2b-log-were-in-hell-gentlemen/
I would definitely eat more during the day. Maybe 2-3 hardboiled eggs.
I did CBL before but because of various reasons I started over (incl. prep fase) on 1st of June 2013. Before starting over I had a period of 4 weeks of “normal” diet.I like the result that I have CBL, until now and I have few doubts whereby I think my food consumption (timing) can be better.Here are my doubts and I hope someone can help me;1#. Every day around 17:00PM I have this hunger feeling and low energy in the sense of dizziness when standup to quick. When training on that day I have the strong feeling that I can perform better but it doesn't happen. The hunger feeling subsides during training until after training. It does not matter if I had a CBL night the day before. Rest days are the same but I do not train, so I have to be careful not to eat too much. In the mornings I have no hunger feeling. I am guessing that this is not normal and if any of you have an idea why this happens and how to resolve it I would appreciate it? You could try eating more food during the day. This would align with another recommendation of in taking overall more calories (protein esp).I was think the same thing but my mean concern is that this leads to much protein intake per day. Protein to lean body mass ratio. 2#. I have still trouble figuring out if I had enough carbs when CBL. The bloated or flat rule doesn't help. In my opinion I am always flat. Maybe this is because I have only 2 hour of CBL night before I crash in to bed. Any experience you might have regarding this is much appreciated. What's the most amount of carbs you've taken in? What kind of training do you do? Chances are if you are continually feeling flat you are either 1) overcritical or 2) not eating enough carbs. Either way judge the amount of carbs your taking in on your training. If training is tough up the carbs.Most of the time I eat between 250 and 350 grams of carbs per CBL night. My training; 4x12 reps, 5 exercises per muscle group. 11th and 12th push is to the breaking point. I could eat more carbs but my concern is that because of this I will gain more fat.3#. Does having 30 grams of protein from whole foods give me an insulin spike? Or does it only count for supplements? Common sense would tell me that 30g of protein (by itself) from anything will cause an insulin response. This is just my guess, mind you. Add in a 1:1 protein to fat ratio and the response will be blunted.This exactly what I am doing at the moment. Thanks for your input.4#. SA has the property of higher fat loss and non to moderate muscle gain. How can I make sure that what I am doing has more of a muscle gain effect? 1. Eat more protein. 2. Get on DB (you're under 15% bf). 3. Eat more food.I am already at my max. protein and fat intake as mentioned on 1#. I am not sure how to change my SA to a DB because I always concentrated to have a correct SA. Maybe you could edit my example in the attachment? Much appreciated.Height: 1.73 meterWeight before prep. day: 77 kgWeight after prep. day: 73 kgBaseline carbs (Weight-Delta chart): 727 gramsCarbs before training: less than 10 grams a dayProtein consumption: between 110 and 128 gramsCurrent BF %: approx. 14%Body type: MesomorphCBL protocol: SATraining: 3 to 4 times heavy weight.Training time: 08:30PMRest day: 1 or 3 and sometimes 4 rest days.In the attachment you will find a food consumption list of my typical training day and rest days.I stripped away the vegetables for easy reading but I eat plenty of them at lunch and dinner. I have knowledge which vegetables have high starch and/or sugar content and when in doubt I have the means to find out. When CBL after training, I use high GI food that have high GL values.Many thanks in forward.
I did CBL before but because of various reasons I started over (incl. prep fase) on 1st of June 2013. Before starting over I had a period of 4 weeks of “normal” diet.I like the result that I have CBL, until now and I have few doubts whereby I think my food consumption (timing) can be better.Here are my doubts and I hope someone can help me;1#. Every day around 17:00PM I have this hunger feeling and low energy in the sense of dizziness when standup to quick. When training on that day I have the strong feeling that I can perform better but it doesn't happen. The hunger feeling subsides during training until after training. It does not matter if I had a CBL night the day before. Rest days are the same but I do not train, so I have to be careful not to eat too much. In the mornings I have no hunger feeling. I am guessing that this is not normal and if any of you have an idea why this happens and how to resolve it I would appreciate it? You could try eating more food during the day. This would align with another recommendation of in taking overall more calories (protein esp).I was think the same thing but my mean concern is that this leads to much protein intake per day. Protein to lean body mass ratio. 2#. I have still trouble figuring out if I had enough carbs when CBL. The bloated or flat rule doesn't help. In my opinion I am always flat. Maybe this is because I have only 2 hour of CBL night before I crash in to bed. Any experience you might have regarding this is much appreciated. What's the most amount of carbs you've taken in? What kind of training do you do? Chances are if you are continually feeling flat you are either 1) overcritical or 2) not eating enough carbs. Either way judge the amount of carbs your taking in on your training. If training is tough up the carbs.Most of the time I eat between 250 and 350 grams of carbs per CBL night. My training; 4x12 reps, 5 exercises per muscle group. 11th and 12th push is to the breaking point. I could eat more carbs but my concern is that because of this I will gain more fat.3#. Does having 30 grams of protein from whole foods give me an insulin spike? Or does it only count for supplements? Common sense would tell me that 30g of protein (by itself) from anything will cause an insulin response. This is just my guess, mind you. Add in a 1:1 protein to fat ratio and the response will be blunted.This exactly what I am doing at the moment. Thanks for your input.4#. SA has the property of higher fat loss and non to moderate muscle gain. How can I make sure that what I am doing has more of a muscle gain effect? 1. Eat more protein. 2. Get on DB (you're under 15% bf). 3. Eat more food.I am already at my max. protein and fat intake as mentioned on 1#. I am not sure how to change my SA to a DB because I always concentrated to have a correct SA. Maybe you could edit my example in the attachment? Much appreciated.Height: 1.73 meterWeight before prep. day: 77 kgWeight after prep. day: 73 kgBaseline carbs (Weight-Delta chart): 727 gramsCarbs before training: less than 10 grams a dayProtein consumption: between 110 and 128 gramsCurrent BF %: approx. 14%Body type: MesomorphCBL protocol: SATraining: 3 to 4 times heavy weight.Training time: 08:30PMRest day: 1 or 3 and sometimes 4 rest days.In the attachment you will find a food consumption list of my typical training day and rest days.I stripped away the vegetables for easy reading but I eat plenty of them at lunch and dinner. I have knowledge which vegetables have high starch and/or sugar content and when in doubt I have the means to find out. When CBL after training, I use high GI food that have high GL values.Many thanks in forward.
Like Kiefer has said over and over: CBL is like a box of Legos- it's all the right pieces you need, but you have to figure out how they go together correctly. You've been given several suggestions of things to try, but you're just responding with "buts." You don't want to up protein because it'll change your protein to lean body mass ratio. So what? It's a ratio, not results. Try raising your protein by 40g a day for 2 weeks and see what happens. If that doesn't work, try a little bit bigger backload, as was suggested. Except you're worried you'll gain fat. The amount of fat you will gain over a 2ish week trial, if you are indeed overdoing it a bit on your backloads, will be negligible and easily able to strip back off by sizing down your backloads again. Lastly, it was suggested to eat more but you said you're already at your max protein and fat. How do you know this? Everybody's body is different and needs different things, and that isn't even taking into account differentiated training. Again, TRY bumping up overall food intake for a week or two or three or whatever and see what happens. This is a science experiment. Take the protocol, do it. When things stop moving, change ONE variable (unless you're obviously WAY off, which it doesn't seem you are), see what happens and move on from there. If that variable change didn't work, reset it back to what it was, try a different variable and see what happens.Even though this reads like I'm being dick, I'm totally not. Just a blunt kind of person, so I apologize if it seems dick-ish.Tweak and Assess!-TC
No apologies necessary. I am not reluctant, just explaining the way I am thinking.I started this post to gather information so that I can tweak and progress. To tweak what I have now I need to clear some doubts.The main advice I got so far before this post was to prevent more than 1,3 gram of protein per kg lean body mass and on ULC part of the day to take equal amount of fat to protein. While this was a good starting point I did not make any progress. I did loose body weight in fat and muscle. So I started tweaking and up the protein and fat intake per day. Which is currently between 110 and 128 grams, equal fat on rest days and less fat about 80 grams on training days.This still didn't lead to much results and I got some acne from it. Which let me to believe that I hit my max protein intake.So I lowered the protein/fat intake back to around 90 and 110 grams per day and up the carbs when CBL from 250 to 350 grams. Just to see what happens. I still was loosing weight.Anything that I did so far still made me feel pithless during training.I started doubting what I was doing and decided to make this post and see what advise I would get.As for now nothing new but only sensible general advise.I hope I am not discouraging anyone with this.
I was just listening to an old episode of Biojacked today, and Kiefer said specifically.. The starting point for CBL is a 1 gram to 1 gram ratio of protein to fat. And you find the protein starting point by simply doing 1 gram per POUND of of target bodyweight. So if you weigh 185, your starting point with CBL should be 185g protein, 185g fat. He then said if you're trying to gain mass and it isn't working, you can ratchet up the protein to a max of about 1.3g per pound, and if you're trying to lean out and it isn't working well, start lowering your fat a little to more closely resemble CNS.Granted this was from early/mid 2012. So, unless this opinion has changed, that is directly what Kiefer said. Take a listen to the Biojacked Q&A with Marci that is split into 2 parts.
I think that is a VERY good split to go with. Folks stopped listening to the podcasts or don't know about them. Props to you!
Taking my present food intake and training timming into acount. Would it be wise to add the additional 30 gram protein/fat at 06:00PM (dinner)?I dont see a problem with this but maybe I am missing something.
Taking my present food intake and training timming into acount. Would it be wise to add the additional 30 gram protein/fat at 06:00PM (dinner)?I dont see a problem with this but maybe I am missing something.
Honestly, if it were me, I'd put more protein (and probably fat) into your Afternoon snack, and I would be eating some kind of dinner with protein and fat. Looking at your spreadsheet, I can see why you'd be hungry around 5pm, you've hardly had anything all day. Drop some whole food in in the afternoon and I bet that hunger goes away. It seems like you're looking at the minutiae a bit instead of the overall.. Like above, the starting point is 1g:1g Fat:Protein for each pound of bodyweight. If you're 73kg, that's approximately 160-165 pounds. Why not shoot for 155-170g of both protein and fat each day and then work on adjusting from there. If you aren't leaning out enough, ratchet the fats back a little bit. If you aren't gaining and you want to, bump the protein up a little more.
Great, thanks for the conformation. I was also on planning to take more on afternoon snack besides adding protein/fat at dinner.How low do you think we can go on fat per meal (on a protein/fat ratio per meal) before the body uses protein as a energy source? In theory of-course, seeing every-body is different.Not that I want to go that low, just looking were the limit is.I calculating needed protein amount from lean muscle mass, which for me is approx. 64kg (=141lbs).but ;D I get were you are getting at.
Great, thanks for the conformation. I was also on planning to take more on afternoon snack besides adding protein/fat at dinner.How low do you think we can go on fat per meal (on a protein/fat ratio per meal) before the body uses protein as a energy source? In theory of-course, seeing every-body is different.Not that I want to go that low, just looking were the limit is.
I found a recommendation from Kiefer regarding protein/fat ratio intake to start with. He says start from 1:0.5 (protein:fat) and go from there.
Great, thanks for the conformation. I was also on planning to take more on afternoon snack besides adding protein/fat at dinner.How low do you think we can go on fat per meal (on a protein/fat ratio per meal) before the body uses protein as a energy source? In theory of-course, seeing every-body is different.Not that I want to go that low, just looking were the limit is.
I found a recommendation from Kiefer regarding protein/fat ratio intake to start with. He says start from 1:0.5 (protein:fat) and go from there.
You need to go listen to this podcast, perhaps it'll help you.http://soundcloud.com/dh-kiefer/biojacked-radio-27-kiefer
I did CBL before but because of various reasons I started over (incl. prep fase) on 1st of June 2013. Before starting over I had a period of 4 weeks of “normal” diet.I like the result that I have CBL, until now and I have few doubts whereby I think my food consumption (timing) can be better.Here are my doubts and I hope someone can help me;1#. Every day around 17:00PM I have this hunger feeling and low energy in the sense of dizziness when standup to quick. When training on that day I have the strong feeling that I can perform better but it doesn't happen. The hunger feeling subsides during training until after training. It does not matter if I had a CBL night the day before. Rest days are the same but I do not train, so I have to be careful not to eat too much. In the mornings I have no hunger feeling. I am guessing that this is not normal and if any of you have an idea why this happens and how to resolve it I would appreciate it?2#. I have still trouble figuring out if I had enough carbs when CBL. The bloated or flat rule doesn't help. In my opinion I am always flat. Maybe this is because I have only 2 hour of CBL night before I crash in to bed. Any experience you might have regarding this is much appreciated.3#. Does having 30 grams of protein from whole foods give me an insulin spike? Or does it only count for supplements?4#. SA has the property of higher fat loss and non to moderate muscle gain. How can I make sure that what I am doing has more of a muscle gain effect?Height: 1.73 meterWeight before prep. day: 77 kgWeight after prep. day: 73 kgBaseline carbs (Weight-Delta chart): 727 gramsCarbs before training: less than 10 grams a dayProtein consumption: between 110 and 128 gramsCurrent BF %: approx. 14%Body type: MesomorphCBL protocol: SATraining: 3 to 4 times heavy weight.Training time: 08:30PMRest day: 1 or 3 and sometimes 4 rest days.In the attachment you will find a food consumption list of my typical training day and rest days.I stripped away the vegetables for easy reading but I eat plenty of them at lunch and dinner. I have knowledge which vegetables have high starch and/or sugar content and when in doubt I have the means to find out. When CBL after training, I use high GI food that have high GL values.Many thanks in forward.
Dude you need to eat more actual food in the day. I would struggle with just caffeine, MCT oiL, tuna, and a lump of cheese. Try some eggs and bacon in the morning. later have a chicken salad with some sort of fat, olive oil etc and some nuts. Or a burger( no bun) with cheese, and some green veg with butter. Use the caffeine in between those meals. On a non training day just raise the protein, and fats as you will be missing the calories from not backloading. I'm no expert mate, but this is what works for me on SA. I was on DB for two months, and I have now fully commited myself to SA and the pounds are dropping off in just over a week and a half.
With all the info from this post (thanks guys) and listening to the podcast I lost most of the dough's that I had.For 2 weeks I tried the 120g fat / 160g protein (ratio 0,75/1.0) and 350g carbs (training days). I feel much better before and during training. My total body weight is constant at 73kg, so no gain nore loss. I do look as if I have gained some fat.Next step, that I already started on, is to lower the carbs (after training) to see the result. Until know (4 days in the run) almost no power loss during training. I also do not see any difference between the previous 350g and present 215g, in terms of how I look. So in my opinion I look flat. I am starting to think this rule counts only when you have less then 10% BF.What I do have now, which did happen before, is that after 30 min of a meal I get these hot flashes. Insuline spike maybe, I do not know.Any ideas/advise would be appreciated regarding the NON-fat loss and hot flashes.So my SA CBL looks like as following;Rest day:Morning: 10g MCT, vitamine, omega-3Lunch: 30g MCT / 35g protein Afternoon snack: 25g fat / 30g proteinDinner: 25g fat / 30g proteinEvening Snack: 30g fat / 65g proteinTotal: 120g fat / 160g protein (ratio 0,75/1.0)Usable carbs overall: less than 5gTraining day:Morning: 10g MCT, vitamine, visoilLunch: 30g fat / 35g protein Afternoon snack: 25g fat / 30g proteinDinner: 25g fat / 30g proteinUsable carbs overall: less than 5g>> Training << Evening Snack: 30g fat / 65g protein (incl. PWO shake)Total: 120g fat / 160g protein (ratio 0,75/1.0)Usable carbs overall: 215gThank you and have a good one this weekend.
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