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I dont think its going to matter too much. You have different forms of mediated action here. If one is downregulated (Glut4 from caffiene Pre-Workout) the other is still available (insulin via carbs Post-Workout) So basically if youre on CBL taking creatine Post-Workout is your best option because of the carbs/insulin and Glut4 Stimulation from training. And likewise if youre on CNS you are best served taking creatine Post-Workout because of the Glut4 Stimulation.
Thanks. So then the time lapse is enough so that the caffeine still in my system from PrWO is not enough 2-2 1/2 hours later to interfere with the Glut-4 stimulation PoWO, correct? (I am running CNS)
What I could find on the Half-life of Caffeine suggests about a 2.5-10 hour range. Im willing to believe that after exercise you would be clearing it out a lot quicker than that. So its probably dipping back down significantly by the time your training has finished and you are into your first meal/shake aftewards. Charles Poliquin recommends Vitamin C post training if you have been using Caffeine to help clear it out quicker. Dont know what Kiefer would make of that though.
The caffeine thing is really good to know and makes sense. Creatine is a nutrient just as everything else is. What I understand is that caffeine is only an issue if insulin is the only thing activating your glute transportation system. If you workout, then whether or not you had caffeine you would take creatine PWO and for the rest of the night. Even take it together if you want. If it's an off day then just start taking it from supper time till bed. It may make training on your actual carbnite more important for the carb niters as you might need that independent, resistance training mediated translocation of glut 4 and 12 to drive creatine into cells when you are insulin resistant to get maximum use of your creatine. In the absense of caffeine, creatine is aborbed no matter how or what else you take it with. The best news for me is no more worrying about mixing this crap. I'ma throw it in my mouth like pixi stick powder and slam it down with my PWO shake! lol Or with water on my off day.
I already experimented years ago with high doses of creatine similar to the suggested dosages in the article. Be warned folks: serious constipation will be experienced!!
How high? Did it have any fillers or anything like that? My bowel movements worked just fine today. lol 30 grams last night with 15 of it being before bed.
I already experimented years ago with high doses of creatine similar to the suggested dosages in the article. Be warned folks: serious constipation will be experienced!!
Wow, that sounds like bad news. Coupled with the paucity of bathroom trips since I've been on CNS, that would really spell trouble.However, I had always heard that Creatine-caused GI problems were usually opposite, i.e., diarrhea, gas, bloating.
In my experience the GI issues are connected with the mesh grade of the powder used. The old powders with an 80 mesh gave me diarrhea, the micronized powders with a mesh of 200 gave me constipation when I took them high dosed.
Kiefer didnt mention it but it probably pays to work up to the max dosage you are shooting for. The constipation thing could be due to not taking in enough water perhaps.
The constipation thing could be due to not taking in enough water perhaps.
yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing.Any thoughts on timeframes to cycle creatine? 3 on - 3 off etc??
The constipation thing could be due to not taking in enough water perhaps.
yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing.Any thoughts on timeframes to cycle creatine? 3 on - 3 off etc??
Probably not necessary to come off creatine at all, unless you are looking to lose weight specifically for a contest or something.
The constipation thing could be due to not taking in enough water perhaps.
yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing.Any thoughts on timeframes to cycle creatine? 3 on - 3 off etc??
Probably not necessary to come off creatine at all, unless you are looking to lose weight specifically for a contest or something.
Agreed.
ok thanks. So I just tell my GP I'm on creatine when they do bloodwork and see elevated Creatinine 🙂
Elevated creatinine still points to a kidney problem. The use of creatine normally doesn't elevate the creatinine markers in your bloodwork.
Read at your own risk, I was very discouraged by his post yesterday and it left a lot of questions in my mind..
But what sounds weird to me is that caffeine prevents GLUT4 activation.. I'm not into CBL but isn't that a main part of CBL and caffeine is used as a booster for workouts? :>
I saw that as well, I need to go back to the caffeine section of the book to see what he advises regarding caffeine, the pros and cons, and to see how this changes things..
Alright folks, here's what I got from it. It's stupid simple...For those who are doing CBL SA or DB, use creatine with the PWO Shake and during a Carb meal. For those who are doing CNS, on your Carb Nite, if you train right before the re-feed have a PWO Shake that contains creatine, you can also sip of creatine with the 10g hyrdolysates and 3-5g leucine with a carb meal. Just like for the folks doing CBL. *Also seems like the large dose with a ULC PWO Shake is still recommended tooYes this may be contradicting from the CBL book Kiefer came out with a little over a YEAR ago, just like new information and research came out for Carb Nite Solution (published many YEARS ago), new information and research comes out almost daily. So if you do with what is up-to-date you'll be fine and good to go
I wouldn't say it is stupid simple, but, Kiefer is rooting out various things by reading all these studies. If you've ever read any of these studies, it isn't easy to get through one and certainly isn't interesting or enthralling; it takes drive and determination. Kuddos to him for taking one for the team.. Yes he came out with the book a year ago, but if he is suggesting this much of a change in his protocol he needs to make an editing change and/or send out notice in email format to all that have purchased the book. My first reaction to reading the blog post was to wonder how much else might be missing or wrong in the book I've read.. Why, because unless you root through hours of video and blog posts you can't find the current information. Being in the medical environment, I know what the protocol is the medical journals and how they deal with changes to their JADA/JAMA or various medical books.. You get an addendum to make appropriate updates, it isn't rocket science, it's email and a click of a button to process.. I like what he has to say regarding this process, otherwise I wouldn't do it, I also like the fact that he is a physicist that roots it all out. I want changes to come from him, I want it to have merit, and I don't want to base my nutrition from the summations of a bunch of backyard scientists types.. *rant over
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