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So with GBG adding the banana he is adding some of his BL carbs right? The original CS has no carbs?
Yeah I'm adding carbs, and I do count them towards my total. The banana is really just for improved taste.
CS just amplifies your current PWO Shake, creating a greater insulin spike. With using this shake, you don't have to consume much carbs to achieve that spike needed, which is great for women who cannot hold much glycogen in the first place. Personally, I count it but not towards my overall Carb needed intake.
Just to put it in words and see if I'm understanding this all correctly:After watching that video of the Alan Aragon v Brad Schoenfeld talk at their recent convention, it was stated that carbs in and of itself were unnecessary in that "Anabolic Window" for optimal insulintropic responce, but instead having enough protein pwo would get you to the necessary insulin level of anabolism SO LONG AS YOUR DAILY CARBOHYDRATE INTAKE IS MET, and it was stated that going beyond this level yielded no anabolic benefit.However, it is my understanding that the greater insulin spike you can produce, the more Growth Hormone you will secret once the insulin is burnt up. That being said, with the reduction of Carbohydrate the less fuel you have for the tGlut sygnaling overall, however the glut4 pathways which react independent of carbohydrate continue to process from the stimulation via resistance training. This improved spike in insulin, with reduction of carbohydrate would ideally lead to a greater muscle catabolism anabolism with reduced adipose tissue anabolism. THEN once the insulin is burnt up by the glut4 of the lean mass (and glut 12 being less fed from the reduction of carbs, thereby the less nutrients to fat tissues), the greater growth hormone secretion will then intiate the muscle repair AND fat burning for fuel to a degree proportional to the insuline spike. This ideally is why during this window we want to limit carbohydrate, spike insulin, keep protein consumption to the correct measures based on goal and biometrics, and THEN wait for the backload for successive spikes with the ideal last spike finishing before bed, when we are in our optimal muscle anabolic/fat catabolic state.This seems to me to be the optimal scenario for the SA guys. DB Would likely be wanting to still spike similarly, but act more quickly with their PWO nutrition to stimi the catabolic PWO window.Am I grasping this correctly? ... Because this is what I've been doing and getting shredded faster then when I was eating strictly chicken and broccoli and doing 2 hours of cardio a day.
CS just amplifies your current PWO Shake, creating a greater insulin spike. With using this shake, you don't have to consume much carbs to achieve that spike needed, which is great for women who cannot hold much glycogen in the first place. Personally, I count it but not towards my overall Carb needed intake.
Just to put it in words and see if I'm understanding this all correctly:After watching that video of the Alan Aragon v Brad Schoenfeld talk at their recent convention, it was stated that carbs in and of itself were unnecessary in that "Anabolic Window" for optimal insulintropic responce, but instead having enough protein pwo would get you to the necessary insulin level of anabolism SO LONG AS YOUR DAILY CARBOHYDRATE INTAKE IS MET, and it was stated that going beyond this level yielded no anabolic benefit.However, it is my understanding that the greater insulin spike you can produce, the more Growth Hormone you will secret once the insulin is burnt up. That being said, with the reduction of Carbohydrate the less fuel you have for the tGlut sygnaling overall, however the glut4 pathways which react independent of carbohydrate continue to process from the stimulation via resistance training. This improved spike in insulin, with reduction of carbohydrate would ideally lead to a greater muscle catabolism anabolism with reduced adipose tissue anabolism. THEN once the insulin is burnt up by the glut4 of the lean mass (and glut 12 being less fed from the reduction of carbs, thereby the less nutrients to fat tissues), the greater growth hormone secretion will then intiate the muscle repair AND fat burning for fuel to a degree proportional to the insuline spike. This ideally is why during this window we want to limit carbohydrate, spike insulin, keep protein consumption to the correct measures based on goal and biometrics, and THEN wait for the backload for successive spikes with the ideal last spike finishing before bed, when we are in our optimal muscle anabolic/fat catabolic state.This seems to me to be the optimal scenario for the SA guys. DB Would likely be wanting to still spike similarly, but act more quickly with their PWO nutrition to stimi the catabolic PWO window.Am I grasping this correctly? ... Because this is what I've been doing and getting shredded faster then when I was eating strictly chicken and broccoli and doing 2 hours of cardio a day.
That's pretty much it, except if you are going to eat carbs, you can do it immediately after Carb Shock. The whole point of waiting an hour after training to spike insulin via Carb Shock is to allow fatty acids to be cleared from the blood and to allow inflammatory metabolites produced from training to build up. Also carb shock is great for any goal. It's great for getting lean because you don't have to consume that many carbs and it's also good for mass gaining because the anabolic response is greater.
I never got around to reading the “white paper”… and at this point, I'm not sure if I ever will. Can anyone tell me if there is an advantage to waiting one hour PWO to eat, in general? Or does this discussion just pertain to Carb Shock / carbs?
I never got around to reading the "white paper"... and at this point, I'm not sure if I ever will. Can anyone tell me if there is an advantage to waiting one hour PWO to eat, in general? Or does this discussion just pertain to Carb Shock / carbs?
Not just carb shock, it's good regardless of your PWO nutrition.
I never got around to reading the "white paper"... and at this point, I'm not sure if I ever will. Can anyone tell me if there is an advantage to waiting one hour PWO to eat, in general? Or does this discussion just pertain to Carb Shock / carbs?
It's not waiting an hour to eat, well it could be, but it is waiting an hour to take a PWO Shake. Regardless of having CS or not. So yes it will benefit you to wait that hour with the research Kiefer found in regards to waiting. I think it is the webinar or a previous podcast done. Or the Supplement Black Book.
Not just carb shock, it's good regardless of your PWO nutrition.
Thanks, ibob. I keep telling myself I am going to read it. ::) In the meantime, I've been ...just sort of... waiting a little longer than I used to PWO. But not timing it for exactly an hour.Tex, just saw you posted while I was typing -- I don't do a PWO shake, though. And I'm probably not ever going to get back into that. I've been just eating some food. Cottage cheese was my favorite PWO for a little bit. Now that dairy is out again, I'm just chugging my collagen hydrolysate (11 g protein, lots of amino acids). Then eating dinner as normal ~whenever~ it is time.
Curious, here's the
Cliff notesMac notes version… 😀- The body releases cortisol during normal resistance training. In the absence of elevated insulin levels, cortisol helps break down body fat and glycogen stores to fuel the workout.- We want the stress caused during training to fully set in, which means not interfering with the autophagic response or beneficial cortisol levels. To do this, avoid PWO nutrients for one hour.- Consuming only water for an hour PWO assists these processes: * Clearing out triglycerides * Removing fatty acids from the blood * Eliminating toxins from the system- After one hour PWO, a large insulin spike helps to: * Increase protein synthesis * Trigger anabolic processes (muscle tissue repair) * Stop catabolism (muscle tissue breakdown)Curious, here's the
Cliff notesMac notes version... 😀Thanks, Mac! 😀 That is very helpful. I definitely needed the Mac Notes version.
I never got around to reading the "white paper"... and at this point, I'm not sure if I ever will. Can anyone tell me if there is an advantage to waiting one hour PWO to eat, in general? Or does this discussion just pertain to Carb Shock / carbs?
It's not waiting an hour to eat, well it could be, but it is waiting an hour to take a PWO Shake. Regardless of having CS or not. So yes it will benefit you to wait that hour with the research Kiefer found in regards to waiting. I think it is the webinar or a previous podcast done. Or the Supplement Black Book.
It's nutrition in general Tex.
Curious, here's the
Cliff notesMac notes version... 😀- The body releases cortisol during normal resistance training. In the absence of elevated insulin levels, cortisol helps break down body fat and glycogen stores to fuel the workout.- We want the stress caused during training to fully set in, which means not interfering with the autophagic response or beneficial cortisol levels. To do this, avoid PWO nutrients for one hour.- Consuming only water for an hour PWO assists these processes: * Clearing out triglycerides * Removing fatty acids from the blood * Eliminating toxins from the system- After one hour PWO, a large insulin spike helps to: * Increase protein synthesis * Trigger anabolic processes (muscle tissue repair) * Stop catabolism (muscle tissue breakdown)BAD, Penny.....I haven't read it either......and like Curious, I keep saying I am! LOVE the Mac's Notes. 😉
Curious, here's the
Cliff notesMac notes version... 😀- The body releases cortisol during normal resistance training. In the absence of elevated insulin levels, cortisol helps break down body fat and glycogen stores to fuel the workout.- We want the stress caused during training to fully set in, which means not interfering with the autophagic response or beneficial cortisol levels. To do this, avoid PWO nutrients for one hour.- Consuming only water for an hour PWO assists these processes: * Clearing out triglycerides * Removing fatty acids from the blood * Eliminating toxins from the system- After one hour PWO, a large insulin spike helps to: * Increase protein synthesis * Trigger anabolic processes (muscle tissue repair) * Stop catabolism (muscle tissue breakdown)This combined with the points made by Alan Aragon and Brad Schoenfeld (sp?) made on their "Anabolic Window Theory" presentation it seem like there's hardly an arguement NOT to wait. They stated that they found for elite level athletes that immediate consumption of protein post workout to blunt the coritsol and spike insulin and bring protein synthesis had very minimimal significant in net muscle hypertrophy, and this is compared to a counterpart group that waited at LEAST 2 hours for consumption of protein PWO. It was also that it was negligible difference in anabolism for non-elite level athletes to eat immediately vs the 2 hour wait. With benefits pointed out by Keifer, summarized by Mac, I don't see how you justifiably don't wait, aside from being really, really hungry. lol.
With benefits pointed out by Keifer, summarized by Mac, I don't see how you justifiably don't wait, aside from being really, really hungry. lol.
Lol. Since I haven't read the paper yet, and I wasn't sure if it applied to me, that's sort of what I have been doing. I am rarely REALLY hungry after a workout -- but if I am, I eat. If I'm not, I've waited. {shrug} Some days (usually when we are really busy and getting ready to go somewhere), I just haven't been hungry at all... and I've just waited until my next meal. I've wondered if there was harm in doing that. But then I remind myself that my ancient ancestors had no "rules" like this, and their muscles probably survived just fine. 😀 They ate when they could eat, you know? Or when they were hungry.What I did pick up from the conversations around here up to this point was: NO "need" to start cramming food in my mouth the second I walk in the house from training. I appreciate everyone clarifying things in this conversation. Thanks.
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