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I'd do whey even on ULC days post work out mainly because the whole point of ULC is to lose fat and not lose muscle. Insulin only spikes when you taken in whey because it's required for protein synthesis to stimulate muscle growth and prevent muscle breakdown. You need to continuously work hard in the gym, but over time you don't want your strength to gradually getting weaker and weaker. Body composition can change while keeping body weight static. Here's where I think it gets tricky:Keifer mentioned in a post that if insulin does break the threshold (not sure if whey does this during the spike), you may reverse the process of storing fat. This works if you keep the consumption of fat to a minimal. Now I seen some arguments that you should eat fat when you consume protein to slow down the rate of digestion of the whey or minimize the effects of insulin and slow down the whole digestive process.Now, purely based on my own conjecture, I found that the problem with that idea is that this kind of resembles what a low glycemic index will do. If your insulin raises regardless of the threshold, and you consume fat, your body will not burn it, it will store as fat. That's why when I eat protein, I eat it with veggies, no fat. My day just rotates between eating purely fat in the morning, pure protein at lunch with veggies, pure fat after that, and pure protein with veggies after a workout.
No you want the whey with leucine and creatine PWO. It keeps your body from being any more catabolic from the workout and helps build. You could stretch not having the shake for a max of 15 minutes so that you'll take some advantage of burning body fat.
Leucine? interesting, I thought this was only for CBL for some reason. I'll add that to the shake, along with some creatine.So, the concern for dairy is more about it being easily overeaten rather than some kind of internal effect on weight loss?
That's why when I eat protein, I eat it with veggies, no fat. My day just rotates between eating purely fat in the morning, pure protein at lunch with veggies, pure fat after that, and pure protein with veggies after a workout.
Have you had success going this route?
That's why when I eat protein, I eat it with veggies, no fat. My day just rotates between eating purely fat in the morning, pure protein at lunch with veggies, pure fat after that, and pure protein with veggies after a workout.
Have you had success going this route?
I can't tell you for sure. In the last two weeks I lost ten pounds. I done two things to my diet. Alternate between fats and proteins. And two, have a carb nite every 2-4 weeks depending on whether or not I lost weight by the end of the week. Neither switch had stalled my progress. I did find that the switch between fat and protein works easiest for me. Morning I have coffee with butter, a splash of HWC, coconut oil. 2 hours later, I'd get more than half a pound of meat, the other half is veggies (kale and broccoli), 2 hours later another cup of coffee with butter, HWC, and coconut oil, and 2 hours after that.. chicken breast.. then I hit the gym.. and more meat with veggies.I know for sure that I lost 8 pounds because 20 days ago, I weighed 286 after my carb nite, so it was food with water.. end of the week I'd taper down to 275-277 before my carb nite.. now I'm down to 268.I found the conventional carb nite kept giving me more muscle and kept getting me fatter. Though 3 weeks on ULC, I get dry really quick.. and very very dehydrated, it's like I have to drink water almost every half hour.
I'd do whey even on ULC days post work out mainly because the whole point of ULC is to lose fat and not lose muscle. Insulin only spikes when you taken in whey because it's required for protein synthesis to stimulate muscle growth and prevent muscle breakdown. You need to continuously work hard in the gym, but over time you don't want your strength to gradually getting weaker and weaker. Body composition can change while keeping body weight static. Here's where I think it gets tricky:Keifer mentioned in a post that if insulin does break the threshold (not sure if whey does this during the spike), you may reverse the process of storing fat. This works if you keep the consumption of fat to a minimal. Now I seen some arguments that you should eat fat when you consume protein to slow down the rate of digestion of the whey or minimize the effects of insulin and slow down the whole digestive process.Now, purely based on my own conjecture, I found that the problem with that idea is that this kind of resembles what a low glycemic index will do. If your insulin raises regardless of the threshold, and you consume fat, your body will not burn it, it will store as fat. That's why when I eat protein, I eat it with veggies, no fat. My day just rotates between eating purely fat in the morning, pure protein at lunch with veggies, pure fat after that, and pure protein with veggies after a workout.
That's simply not true. If it were, why would MCT oil be recommended PWO when not having carbs? (along with isolate, hydrolysate and leucine for a huge insulin spike)
That's simply not true. If it were, why would MCT oil be recommended PWO when not having carbs? (along with isolate, hydrolysate and leucine for a huge insulin spike)
I don't want to be giving wrong information here, but this was completely on my own conjecture and based off of what makes sense to me.MCT oils - specifically coconut oil and butter don't make you fat, regardless of insulin spikes. It's processed by the liver directly, and churns out keytones. In absense of carbs, ketones are used instead. Insulin levels aren't affected by MCT. So you can take it whenever you want. But my main emphasis is why take it with protein when you're in a state of ketosis? Like what time during the day does your body increase sensitivity to the point that it looks for alternative sources of energy.. like.. body fat? So when your insulin rises, and you stop burning body fat, why give your body more ketones (through MCT) to process?Now, it makes sense to me to take MCT oil before the work out, it can help with your endurance in the gym; but personally I don't think there's much of a difference if you were to take it or not PWO, maybe you'd feel more energized afterwards, but the effects won't be nearly as astounding if you were to do a carb backload and your goal is to gain muscle.With all that aside, the point of my post (again my own conjecture), is that any protein will raise up your insulin, I say let it, because you need to have it risen for protein synthesis. But I think it's a completely different story when it comes to consuming carbs and having your insulin spike due to that.
So far what i've taken from your advice is to watch my dairy consumption for excess calories. Now, does that mean 2200-2400 is maybe on the higher end of the spectrum for me? I was reading a thread on here with people saying they go as low as 1600kcal on a ULC day. I think it'll be tough to get calories that low while keeping protein and fat up.Can someone rate an example carb nite for me?5pm: 15 rolls of sushi, slice or pizza6pm: 2 chocolate croissants8pm: large bowl of chex w skim milk10: maybe a cookie ice cream sandwich12: peanut butter on white breadAny red flags in there?
I'd start lower in fat then move to the fattier stuff personally. Are you making any of this or all bought from a store?
I'd start lower in fat then move to the fattier stuff personally. Are you making any of this or all bought from a store?
It's all store bought :-Do you think there's a benefit to restricting calories on ULC days too?
I'd start lower in fat then move to the fattier stuff personally. Are you making any of this or all bought from a store?
It's all store bought :-Do you think there's a benefit to restricting calories on ULC days too?
A benefit, well a deficit is needed for fat loss, however removing carbs already do that. If you stick to having at least a gram of protein per body weight, even a bit less, with fats being .75g you should be alright. Now on the CN, I'm not saying to not use store bought stuff, but perhaps limit it and enjoy some homemade meals. A CN full of processed boxed items may not yield as great of results like the homemade stuff.
Can someone rate an example carb nite for me?5pm: 15 rolls of sushi, slice or pizza6pm: 2 chocolate croissants8pm: large bowl of chex w skim milk10: maybe a cookie ice cream sandwich12: peanut butter on white breadAny red flags in there?
I would rework this a little based on fat content. But if you're going out and this is what happens, have at it. Keep the fat to the end of the night. Without knowing actual #'s I think I'd go with:5pm: large bowl of chex w skim milk (they have gluten free options, fruity or cocoa pebbles are popular options too, flavored coconut milk can be good too)6pm: 15 rolls of sushi, [slice or pizza - if having that I would move to later due to fat] prob can move this first too8pm: peanut butter on white bread (saddest carb nite food ever?! ;))10: 2 chocolate croissants12: maybe a cookie ice cream sandwich
I would rework this a little based on fat content. But if you're going out and this is what happens, have at it. Keep the fat to the end of the night. Without knowing actual #'s I think I'd go with:5pm: large bowl of chex w skim milk (they have gluten free options, fruity or cocoa pebbles are popular options too, flavored coconut milk can be good too)6pm: 15 rolls of sushi, [slice or pizza - if having that I would move to later due to fat] prob can move this first too8pm: peanut butter on white bread (saddest carb nite food ever?! ;))10: 2 chocolate croissants12: maybe a cookie ice cream sandwich
Peanut butter on bread is lame, but it's always what I crave, lol. Maybe i'll throw some jam on there to spice things up a little.
I would rework this a little based on fat content. But if you're going out and this is what happens, have at it. Keep the fat to the end of the night. Without knowing actual #'s I think I'd go with:5pm: large bowl of chex w skim milk (they have gluten free options, fruity or cocoa pebbles are popular options too, flavored coconut milk can be good too)6pm: 15 rolls of sushi, [slice or pizza - if having that I would move to later due to fat] prob can move this first too8pm: peanut butter on white bread (saddest carb nite food ever?! ;))10: 2 chocolate croissants12: maybe a cookie ice cream sandwich
Peanut butter on bread is lame, but it's always what I crave, lol. Maybe i'll throw some jam on there to spice things up a little.
lol.. I always thought it was lame.. but I'm the only one who does this.. I take my favorite cereal.. capn crunch peanut butter cereal (or the original).. cheerios.. or rice krispies.. and i grind it up .. and sprinkle a few table spoons on top of the peanut butter for a nice kick. sometimes i add syrup to it.. makes everything stick nicely.
Peanut butter on bread is lame, but it's always what I crave, lol. Maybe i'll throw some jam on there to spice things up a little.
Oh I hear ya, one of my first cravings was english muffins with peanut butter or cornbread or stuffing. MMmmm
When is a good time to transition to CBL? I'm happy with my muscle mass and I just want to strip some fat. Kiefer says CBL works well around 15% but seeing how CNS worked for the guys over at Propane Fitness (however questionable those after photos look) it seems CBL may not be necessary.http://propanefitness.com/our-experience-with-carb-nite/
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