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Anyone have a thought to using a full 24 hour fast during the first two weeks of carb nite to hasten the “transition phase”?Also does anyone have an opinion on fasting the day after carbnite as a way to accelerate the fat loss?
I believe in the CN book Kiefer explains why both of those are not good ideas. Your body will want to burn more fat if there is available fat to burn. Perhaps fasting longer AFTER you've gone through the depletion phase first might work.
You can quicken the orientation phase by exercising… basically anything to quicken the depletion of any stored carbs. I didn't get the idea from the book that it shouldn't be done… just that he warns there's no way to gaurantee that your cells will be depleted unless you do the full 9 days. Personally, I plan to do a 4 day orientation while hitting the gym twice a day.
So say I have my CN on Saturday, I couldn't fast on Sunday and not eat until noon Monday? It'll be a bad idea? Because I'm reading an article from T-Nation about Fasting. Pretty sounds like what I'll be doing during the week with 16 hours of not eating anything (8 hours sleeping roughly, and 8 hours till my first meal around lunch time) then I'll have the rest of the day to consume the right foods. That on Carb Nite, or when my depletion phase is done, intaking the rest of the meals Post-Workout.http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/john_berardis_great_fasting_experiment
Thanks guys,It like seems that you'd burn thru your glycogen reserves faster (whether you're transitioning or after carbnite) and get back to the fat burning faster but thats "logic", Id like to see Kiefer or someone chime in with some science and comments on what it would or wouldn't do to the methodology of carbnite and specifically hormone production.I imagine the answer is "it depends" on body comp, energy expenditure profile, sleep habits, etc... but all things being equal... it seems like since your insulin is real low after waking up, keeping it low during a whole 24 hour fast after carbnite.. you'd just burn thru them faster... but again, that's logic.
You can quicken the orientation phase by exercising... basically anything to quicken the depletion of any stored carbs. I didn't get the idea from the book that it shouldn't be done... just that he warns there's no way to gaurantee that your cells will be depleted unless you do the full 9 days. Personally, I plan to do a 4 day orientation while hitting the gym twice a day.
That'll PROBABLY do it -- assuming you've already been in this transition phase before. If you haven't, I'd definitely recommend waiting the full 9 days.HIIT is recommended for hitting total glycogen and glucose depletion fastest and hastening the switch to fatty acid burning.Keep in mind Kiefer always makes recommendations based on what he can guarantee will work for as many people as possible.
Thanks Naomi,Any thoughts from the DH Team on a full 24-36 hour water/coffee/coconut oil only fast after carbnite?im specifically thinking of finishing carbnite around 10-11pm on a Saturday and then not eating again till Monday at my normal time of noon?
I had a carb nite last night and tried my best to fast throughout the day today. I made it to about 1pm and then wanted to kill myself and eat my hand. How the hell do you fast for that long?
As far as I can interpret from the available research and writings of Keifer, skipping breakfast is good, 12-14 hours fasting from the previous night's dinner/bedtime until lunch.I can not find any evidence that suggests fasting for a day or more would help with this style of eating(backloading or carbnite). My understanding from my reading and research is that fasting that long would actually be detrimental.My interpretation is that we are providing readily available fatty acids to the body as the primary fuel source. It appears that if you deprive your body of fatty acids too long, you will end up forcing your body to switch to glucogenesis from protein, and muscle is the best source for protein...Just my 2 cents. I see questions about fasting popping up all the time, and never has Keifer or Naomi actually condoned the extended fasting that is suggested elsewhere.
1) keep busy!2) work at itits something you really have to work up to... think about it this way... when u first "gave up" breakfast it was hard right? something akin to watching the clock and starving to death? after the third of fourth time doing it, its no biggie... i think its hormones... but again, science aint my area... thats what i pay for ebooks for... what i was hoping was that the big guy would cover it in his book (and he kinda does on 235-236) more in depth... but thats more of a carbnite thing than backloading thing... it took me a month but after a month 24 is easy, think (7pm to 7pm) 36 is harder... ive only done it a couple times after getting "fat adapted" so to speak... i find it much harder after to do after eating carbs willy nilly for a few weeks... whats interesting is that i transitioned much faster this time... maybe the body gets used to switching the more you do it... either that or im mentally just used to it. 😉
Just my 2 cents. I see questions about fasting popping up all the time, and never has Keifer or Naomi actually condoned the extended fasting that is suggested elsewhere.
Naomi stated in another thread that the day after a carb nite she fasted all day.
Naomi stated in another thread that the day after a carb nite she fasted all day.
Right on! I must have missed that one :0
awesome… thanks dmunnee…i will do the whole coffee/coconut oil thing though... i expect to be hungry as hell... have to get out and go hiking or something to take my mind off of it...
Naomi stated in another thread that the day after a carb nite she fasted all day.
Right on! I must have missed that one :0
Yes... (Sorry for not seeing these responses until now.) I almost always fast a full day after a Carb Nite, with the exception of a very fat-enhanced protein shake toward the end of the day... or maybe a bison burger. Just one meal at night if I eat at all.Fasting is always a good thing when you feel you've got the energy to burn. The bonus is that you don't particularly need to do any exercise other than walking.As well, I have my heaviest workouts timed to coincide with Carb Nite, so I get all those carbs in right after the heavy lifting, then sleep a wonderful sleep, and the next day just take it easy. No food during the day, no hard training.
As far as I can interpret from the available research and writings of Keifer, skipping breakfast is good, 12-14 hours fasting from the previous night's dinner/bedtime until lunch.I can not find any evidence that suggests fasting for a day or more would help with this style of eating(backloading or carbnite). My understanding from my reading and research is that fasting that long would actually be detrimental.My interpretation is that we are providing readily available fatty acids to the body as the primary fuel source. It appears that if you deprive your body of fatty acids too long, you will end up forcing your body to switch to glucogenesis from protein, and muscle is the best source for protein...Just my 2 cents. I see questions about fasting popping up all the time, and never has Keifer or Naomi actually condoned the extended fasting that is suggested elsewhere.
Fasting for a day is pretty well supported as "good", fasting for longer than that carries some caveats that Kiefer can explain better than I can.It really depends on your lean mass levels as well.A guy like Kiefer (220lbs at 8% bodyfat) needs to keep the amino acids coming when he plans to not eat for more than 12-16 hours.Someone like me (133lbs at 19% bodyfat) isn't going to lose much, if any, crucial muscle mass by doing a full 24 hour fast, and it definitely helps drop off the water weight after Carb Nite. (Just make sure you DRINK lots of water when you do this.)You will always burn SOME muscle fasting, especially after that 24 hour mark, but just fasting from dinner to dinner seems to have highly beneficial metabolic effects.HOWEVER... Kiefer's been talking about research that suggests that doing a Carb Back-Loading sort of program is actually MORE beneficial than fasting. So expect to hear more about that in the future.
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