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I'm interested in hearing what everyone (especially Mr. Kiefer) thinks about running the 6 day version of Big Beyond Belief while using the Carb Back Loading Principles.Would six days a week of carb back loading be to much to see any body recomp benefits from this type of dietary strategy?Would a carb cycling type method (still using CBL principles, but shooting for higher Carb intake on days that have a lower body component and lesser carbs on days that don't) be more beneficial?Thanks in advance for whatever input everyone might be willing to give.
45 views and no replys? Am I seriously misunderstanding the basic concepts/principles?
45 views and no replys? Am I seriously misunderstanding the basic concepts/principles?
I don't really know much about this program, but I looked at an example workout and CBL would work great with this.
Big Beyond Belief is essentially a high frequency mass gain protocol. Essentially (in the 6 day version) each muscle group is worked with 1 exercise every other day with varying rep ranges, and rest periods, adding one extra set each week for three weeks then backing off for three weeks.ie.Week1Day 1Chest 3X13-15Back 3X13-15Biceps 3x13-15Calves 3X13-15Day 2Legs 3X13-15Shldr 3X13-15Triceps 3x13-15Abs 3X13-15Day 3same as day 1, but up the weight go 3x10-12Day 4same as day 2, but up the weight go 3x10-12Day 5same as day 1, but up the weight go 3x8-10Day 6same as day 2, but up the weight go 3x8-10Day 7 offWeek 2 follows the same scheme but adds on more set per exerciseWeek 3 follows the same scheme but adds another set per exercise (for a total of 5 sets)After the third week you cut back to 3 sets per exercise and concentrate on strength.Essentially it is a system of increasing intensity to the point of overtraining, than backing off for a few weeks to allow the body to rest and then rinse and repeat.The is a very over simplified explanation of the program, there are also varying rest periods as you progress, but I think this gives people the general idea.
I agree with Ibob, sounds like CBL would be great for this.Honestly, it's so high volume the I wouldn't worry to much about lower carb amounts on upper vs. lower days.
Big Beyond Belief is essentially a high frequency mass gain protocol. Essentially (in the 6 day version) each muscle group is worked with 1 exercise every other day with varying rep ranges, and rest periods, adding one extra set each week for three weeks then backing off for three weeks.ie.Week1Day 1Chest 3X13-15Back 3X13-15Biceps 3x13-15Calves 3X13-15Day 2Legs 3X13-15Shldr 3X13-15Triceps 3x13-15Abs 3X13-15Day 3same as day 1, but up the weight go 3x10-12Day 4same as day 2, but up the weight go 3x10-12Day 5same as day 1, but up the weight go 3x8-10Day 6same as day 2, but up the weight go 3x8-10Day 7 offWeek 2 follows the same scheme but adds on more set per exerciseWeek 3 follows the same scheme but adds another set per exercise (for a total of 5 sets)After the third week you cut back to 3 sets per exercise and concentrate on strength.Essentially it is a system of increasing intensity to the point of overtraining, than backing off for a few weeks to allow the body to rest and then rinse and repeat.The is a very over simplified explanation of the program, there are also varying rest periods as you progress, but I think this gives people the general idea.
first off, what are your stats (age,weight,training experience, you've done CNS/CBL before?) This kind of sounds like the specialization i'm currently doing, but it doesn't at the same time... I actually work one large body part a week or two small body parts a week, 3 times a week to to purposely and temporarily overtrain that group, while reducing other body parts to maintenance volume. After 2 weeks, the body part i chose is then limited volume once a week... for me this put on a lot of size when i "bounced back" from the high volume and frequency. I'm also an intermediate lifter, 7+ years with great progress.The repetition scheme doesn't look too promising in my opinion. I never put on size doing above 8 reps, but hey i know ppl that do (they still werent big beyond belief though LOL). I prefer 3 to 5 reps explosively as possible which i think CBL's framework is based on; max acceleration during a heavy compound lift to trigger GLUT4... I don't think 13-15 reps will get you there, unless they were ELECT reps.working so many muscle groups in the same day, to me, would be putting myself at risk of injury i would think.... but you can definitely be the first guy to try this out and let us know how it goes!
Late 30's, 5'-6″, 145lbs, approx 16%bf. (small framed, think sub 6″ wrists)Being small, strength will never be my fortey, but I do seem to be able to put on mass and wear it relatively well.I had been working out for approx 2-1/2 years, but have been layed off for the last 9 months due to a relocation for my job. I'm trying to get back into it.At my high point, just before moving I was at around 155lbs., and 18%bf. (yeah I know it doesn't sound like much, but considering a starting point of 132lbs., at 16% and never having lifted a weight until my mid thirties...I think I've done pretty good) I generally follow the AD lifestyle, but always fall back to the typical moderate - high carb type diet when trying to gain mass. For me the AD just doesn't work for mass gain.Unfortunately, the older I get the harder it is to bounce back from mass gain cycles done in the typical fashion so I'm hoping to utilize the CBL principles to switch things up in a favorable way.I do not feel that I utilize carbs well, because of that I intend to stick to approximately 100g carbs on the three days with a lower body component (ie squats & deadlifts), and 50g carbs on other three days that don't. Post work out Shake will be 25g Whey Protien/25g carbs (from Chocolate Milk or Dextrose), followed by a meal of steak or chicken and 25-75g of carbs from either white rice or potatoes. Lunch until workout will be meals consisting of steak, eggs, hamburger, cheese, summer sausage, almonds and peanuts.Obviously off days will be high fat/protein and <30g carbs
The Big Beyond Belief program has worked well for me in the past and I'm sure it still will. I urge anyone who has not heard of it or tried it to research it. You may end up thanking me. It is not necessarily a strength protocol program, but more a hypertrophy program-and this is what concerns me. My understanding from reading articles/forums is that he CBL principles are centered around heavier weights (ie. 1-6 rep ranges) Does BBB being more of a hypertrophy program (8-15 rep ranges) mean that the CBL principles will not be as affective?
Late 30's, 5'-6", 145lbs, approx 16%bf. (small framed, think sub 6" wrists)Being small, strength will never be my fortey, but I do seem to be able to put on mass and wear it relatively well.I had been working out for approx 2-1/2 years, but have been layed off for the last 9 months due to a relocation for my job. I'm trying to get back into it.At my high point, just before moving I was at around 155lbs., and 18%bf. (yeah I know it doesn't sound like much, but considering a starting point of 132lbs., at 16% and never having lifted a weight until my mid thirties...I think I've done pretty good) I generally follow the AD lifestyle, but always fall back to the typical moderate - high carb type diet when trying to gain mass. For me the AD just doesn't work for mass gain.Unfortunately, the older I get the harder it is to bounce back from mass gain cycles done in the typical fashion so I'm hoping to utilize the CBL principles to switch things up in a favorable way.I do not feel that I utilize carbs well, because of that I intend to stick to approximately 100g carbs on the three days with a lower body component (ie squats & deadlifts), and 50g carbs on other three days that don't. Post work out Shake will be 25g Whey Protien/25g carbs (from Chocolate Milk or Dextrose), followed by a meal of steak or chicken and 25-75g of carbs from either white rice or potatoes. Lunch until workout will be meals consisting of steak, eggs, hamburger, cheese, summer sausage, almonds and peanuts.Obviously off days will be high fat/protein and <30g carbs
Just remember, the older you get the less wolverine-like you are lol meaning you will have a tougher time recovering from higher volume (naturally anyway) . If i was you i would do a 1 body part.per week routine... Pick one muscle group to build at a time, focus on betteR exercise selection and Quality of performance (intensity). If u eat right you will grow.... I find diet to be the greatest governor of all. Good luck to you
I know it was all the rage on tnation and ProMuscle for a while as Phil Hernon had a hand in how its constructed. From what I have heard you need to make sure your diet and recovery are on point as its very demanding, especially when you get to the ramps. You can to the 4 day version if 6 is too much. Good luck.
I'm doing something similar to this, and progress have been fantastic when mixing it with CBL.I work out in the morning (7AM), so CBL is night before (1900-2100). After trial and error I ditched the post-wo carbs, that works better for me.I also follow a 3-day split, since I feel that works better for me. Also doing a moderate cut, which is why I have less CBLs.The setup:(Day 0: CBL @1900)Day 1: Chest/Back, CBL@19Day 2: Legs (squat movement), no CBLDay 3: Arms/Shoulders, no CBLDay 4: Off, CBL@19Repeat days 1-4, but different rep range, and substitute squat movement with deadlift movementWorks like a charm! Would up the CBLs if going for a bulk, these really turbocharged my recovery between sessions.Def go for the BBB coupled with CBL, it's probably been the mest successful eating/training setup I've followed in my 12y weight training experience!/RS
Just bumping this thread to say I'm also following the 6-day BBB split. Has worked perfect with CBL so far, geting stronger, bigger, and leaner. 4 weeks into now, and loving every minute.
I've said it before but I really think that people are over thinking the rep range WAY too much. Obviously you may run into problems with a rep range much above 15 or 20 for most things but 15 reps can still be beneficial to backloading. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go and do 3 sets of 15 on squats at a weight close to a 15 rep max and tell me they don't feel like they should eat some carbs. If people are really concerned just stack 80% of your carbs to within and immediately post workout, ala John Meadows. I'd love to hear from the OP how this went for him if...assuming he stuck to it long enough to actually work.
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