CarbNite – excellent book, few questions left

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  • #406934

    ultrascope
    Participant

    Allow me to introduce myself. I am 47 years old, male, and over the last three years I went from 134 kilos (295 pounds) to 90 kg (198 pounds). (I am 1,76m or 5ft9) Back then, I used a moderate low-carb / low GI diet with lots of dairy product, berrys and nuts, some asian food with very little rice and fried stuff cut out, of course.

    Then I had a troublesome year with death and illness among family and friends, and I dropped off the wagon, so by the end of 2014 I was at a depressing 110kg/242p again. I went back to better nutrition in June 2015, and lost another 10 kg / 22p up to now.

    Three months ago I read THE CARB NITE SOLUTION, and I have to praise Kiefer for writing what I consider the best book on losing weight I ever came across, and over the years I read a lot of this stuff, believe me. His description of all the usual diets and sstems is absolutely on the spot, and for the first time I understood why low carb nutrition alone will not do the job. Thank you for explaining the leptin, ghrelin and insulin spike stuff, you’re a great teacher.

    Now I have been following the CarbNite protocol for four weeks, and to my surprise – nothing happened.
    I felt great, cutting carbs to <30grams was no problem, I added some more fat than I usually eat, and on CN, I felt good and – surprise! – it was no problem to go back to minimum carbs the following day.

    That alone was an interesting experience because after battling overweight for more than 20 years, I had the expectation that CN would trigger the failure usually present in other diets. Not at all.

    Now maybe someone could advise me what I should avoid or what I have been missing, this is what I take in

    – 120 grams of protein (whey/casein mix) per day (in water)
    – vitamine combination packs (the usual suspects)
    – zinc, magnesium, 2 spoons of resistant starch, 1 spoon citruline malate, 1g L-Carnitine, selenium

    – one serving of dairy/berries per day with some sweetener added (cyclamate/saccharine type)
    – one serving proteine/fat based (eggs, grilled chicken, corned beef)

    Total Carb intake per day was <30grams including the carbs in the protein powders.
    Total calories per day from 1300 to 1600.

    As Kiefer wrote, weight gain after CN went back within 2 days, but in four weeks I did not lose weight at all, it always remains around 99kg / 218p and does not go down.

    I have moderate activity (desk job, walking a few miles per day, doing some gardening).
    However, I remember that when I lost the first ~100 pounds, there was no difference in wight loss between times when I did some running (about 5 miles a day) and periods without training.

    I believe the CN concept is valid, but I must be overlooking something. I’m thinking about getting a blood test to find out what reason there might be for not losing weight.

    I would appreciate your advice what to try next, because I’m running out of ideas.

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ultrascope.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ultrascope.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ultrascope.
    #406941

    Steve Cauffiel
    Participant

    So, you weigh 220ish pounds but are only taking in 1300-1600 calories a day? That stands out to me first and foremost as being way too low. I’m 220 and take in 2500ish calories a day with 180ish grams of fat and 150ish grams of protein. I think you need to be taking in more.

    Steve

    #406967

    Makoto Tomizawa
    Participant

    What have your Carb Nites looked like?

    Training Log: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vuwHRdBaPVILxxLhXly_N1Ys66Hcwk4j-bM7nvKSLrI/edit?usp=sharing

    #406983

    ultrascope
    Participant

    What have your Carb Nites looked like?

    Two protein shakes for breakfast around 10 am.

    Cheese and scrambled eggs or grilled chicken – mostly fat and protein around 1 pm.

    “Carb window” from 6 pm to 1 am – bread, noodles, some chocolate, pizza, all in all about 3000 to 3400 calories per CN.
    No low GI carbs.

    The usual supplements both early in the morning and before bedtime. Usually I’m getting up around 9.30, bedtime has been at 2 am.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ultrascope.
    #407022

    Robert Haas
    Participant

    If you get a blood test done get a HS- C reactive protein (HS-CRP). It should be close to zero = no inflammation.

    CRP is a marker for inflammation and will tell you there is some sort of a food allergy. No amount of dialing in macros will have any effect if inflammation is there.
    Grains (wheat), Dairy, and excessive PUFA’s are the common culprits.

    The eyes can't see what the mind doesn't understand.

    #407283

    ultrascope
    Participant

    Thanks for your answers.

    Rob, I will have the CRP tested. These are the items I have on my blood test list:

    fT3
    fT4
    TSH
    Ferritin
    Magnesium
    Zinc
    Selenium
    Vit D3
    Vit A
    Total serum protein
    CRP
    Cholesterine, triglycerides, HDL/LDL

    Any advice on additional tests that would make sense?

    Steve, from your experience, what is the caloric intake I should aim for? I read CNS three times, but I don’t really know how much intake is best for the non-carb days. Shouldn’t there be a caloric deficit if I want to lose weight? Maybe I missed that information, but English is not my native language, so I may have misunderstood something in the book.

    #407338

    Steve Cauffiel
    Participant

    I’m not sure man but considering you’re in the neighborhood of 6-7 calories per pound of bodyweight per day… that just seems awful low. That’s maintenance level for my girlfriend who weighs 135. I’d think you ought to be upwards of 2200 calories a day as a start. Sure, maybe you want to be at a slight deficit but to me you’re at an extreme and I think that’s going to be a stressor for the body and freak it out. CNS works differently than your usual “restrict calories” thing.

    My opinion, maybe someone else will chime in,
    Steve

    #407369

    Robert Haas
    Participant

    Thanks for your answers.

    Rob, I will have the CRP tested. These are the items I have on my blood test list:

    fT3
    fT4
    TSH
    Ferritin
    Magnesium
    Zinc
    Selenium
    Vit D3
    Vit A
    Total serum protein
    CRP
    Cholesterine, triglycerides, HDL/LDL

    Any advice on additional tests that would make sense?

    Not CRP, get HS-CRP. This will tell you there is inflammation present.
    Most of the others, except Thyroid, will just tell you that you are deficient in something.
    Eat leafy greens at least once a day, get some sun, supplement with D3, vit A & K2, and eat seafood at least once a week, preferably more than once a week along with keeping you macros in line and you should be fine.

    The ldl/hdl will only tell you how much is in your blood. Most of the time it doesn’t matter unless inflammation is present, then the problems start. Lowering Cholesterol does nothing except introduce bad side effects for most people. Better to eliminate the inflammation if there is any shown by CRP. If Cholesterol is a concern I’d read “The Cholesterol Myth”. Pretty scary stuff big pharma has pulled off in selling the general public their sometimes useless and dangerous statin drugs.

    I would get a male hormone panel done. Total testosterone, free T, E2, Progesterone, & SHBG.
    Low T and/or high E2 and/or high SHBG will completely stall fat loss in addition to the health risk of hormone imbalances.

    The eyes can't see what the mind doesn't understand.

    #407370

    Robert Haas
    Participant

    Note on Thyroid: If your test come back “Low” it could be you simply aren’t eating enough. Starvation diets crash metabolism.
    Steve could be right on this one. I honestly don’t know. I’m not a macros guy.

    High TSH means your thyroid is being signaled to make more hormone but if T3&4 are low you might have an autoimmune situation. Again autoimmune diseases will show up as inflammation on the HS-CRP test. Fix the inflammation and the bad stuff goes away…

    The eyes can't see what the mind doesn't understand.

    #407380

    Tony Sangimino
    Moderator

    Eat more please.

    Stop drinking shakes first thing in the morning.

    You need to eat way more protein from whole food sources. Way, way more.

    What’s your bodyfat look like? Ballpark?

    #407580

    christopher brown
    Participant

    Hey ultrascope,

    I was having exactly the same issue you describe; eating a very low amount of calories and not losing weight after losing a lot of weight previously.

    I think Tony and Steve are on to something about eating more. I’m currently 87kg / 193lbs and my daily maintenance kcals are 1600. That’s maintenance only if I do nothing all day. More like 2,000-2,200 (or more) if I’m active or working out.

    At your body weight and calorie intake, you’re basically starving yourself and likely shutting down your metabolism in the process. I know a lot of people are not into counting calories, but there is a limit as to how far you can go, and I can tell from your description you are way too low.

    If you have access, I highly suggest a DXA scan. They are not terribly expensive. I just had one done 2 weeks ago. It will give you a wealth of information about yourself and how to adjust your eating/working habits. The scan will even tell you your ideal calorie intake. That’s how I know mine and how I learned that I was eating too little.

    I know it sounds counter intuitive to eat more to lose weight, especially if that helped you lose the first ~100lbs, but your body has gotten used to the calorie deficit now and has likely slowed your metabolism to compensate for it. Which is likely why you can shed the Carb Nite weight at the beginning of the week and be back to the same weight at weeks end. It’s basically a metabolic roller-coaster.

    Good luck!
    Chris

    #407649

    ultrascope
    Participant

    Tony, body fat is around 30% according to my electronic scale.

    OK, I will switch to more non-powder proteine, like eggs, poultry and beans (as far as the carb limit allows it). Will cottage cheese and curd be okay, too? I understand from the book that calorie counting is not really necessary, but could you give me advice about the total energetic takein I should aim for?
    And should I go to a higher calorie intake with <30g carb limit, or does the body need a higher carb period to get out of the semi-starvation mode?

    Rob, thanks for advice about getting High Sensitive CRP instead of standard CRP. I’m getting my blood tested tomorrow.

    Christopher, it’s just like you said: After battling overweight so many years, trying so many types of diet systems (from fasting to low GI to low carb etc.), I find it hard to change from restrictive thinking to thinking in terms of quality of nutrients. What a pity that most doctors know so little about nutrition and biochemical context. Yesterday I looked over my blood testing list with a good friend who is a doctor (neurologist), and he went blank and asked: “Why do you want to have these tested? What does it have to do with losing fat?”. When I told him, he said: “Well, this wasn’t part of our education – as long as the values stay within the clinical average, we do not go into it very deep.”

    I appreciate the knowledge you all share with me so generously, and I’ll be back as soon as I get test results.

    #407656

    christopher brown
    Participant

    Of all the calculators online I think this one is the best, simply because of step 8. It lets you choose the model in which the calculations are made. Because I know my body fat percent accurately I used the Katch-Mcardle model. Steps 9 and 10 are optional.

    The reason I claim that this tool is accurate is, using it tool I got the same result as my DXA scan revealed and DXA scans are considered gold standard for measuring body composition.

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

    It’s also useful to tell you how many calories to take in if you exercise.

    Best,
    Chris

    P.S. As your weight changes so will your daily calorie requirements. You might want to re-check every 5 pounds of weight loss/gain.

    #428826

    ultrascope
    Participant

    Now, I got my blood tested and these are the results. I was a bit surprised about the really low D3 level, although I shouldn’t have been as I get little sun and work at night a lot. The only action I immediately took was getting a Vit. D3 prescription (Dekristol 20000IU for 8 days, followed by 6500IU during the winter months) to refill D3 storage levels.)

    Thanks to your advice, I have been eating roughly 2200-2400 calories per day, adding a few carbs. Cut the morning whey shakes. As predicted, I did not gain weight but lost 2 or 3 pounds with no additional activity. Good advice!

    D3 level aside, what changes in nutrition or supplementation can or should I make before restarting the CarbNite protocol?

    Glad to hear your ideas.

    Ferritin 121 ng/ml
    Transferrin 277 mg/dl
    Total Protein 73.7 g/l

    TSH 5.13 mU/l
    fT3 3.62 pg/ml
    fT4 1.25 ng/dl

    NOTE: The lab report recommends further checking of my thyroid because of the elevated TSH.
    What are your thoughts?

    Testosterone 5.04 ng/ml

    Cholesterol 199 mg/dl
    HDL 59 mg/dl
    LDL 135 mg/dl
    Triglycerides 109 mg/dl

    Vitamin D (25-OH) 15.7 ng/ml
    Vitamin A 460 μg /l
    Vitamin B12 1969 pg/ml

    Lab added a warning sign because B12 was completely out of their range at 1969 pg/ml (197-771 recommended). I took a closer look at my supplements and realized that the manufacturer of my magnesium supp had changed his product and added B12 some months ago – maybe this got B12 so elevated?

    They also put warning flags on selenium and folic acid, but they give very low recommended values compared to other sources. Not really sure what to make of it.

    Vitamin A is a bit low on the lab’s scale (200-1200μg /l) – does it make sense to take more?

    Magnesium 0.95 mmol/l
    Selenium 144 μg /l
    Zinc 117 μg /dl
    Folic Acid 19.7 ng/ml

    DHEAS 94.1 μg /dl
    CRP (HS) 0.59 mg/l

    Leucocyte 6.5 thousand/μl
    Erithrocyte 5.29 million/μl
    Hemoglobin 15.3 g/dl
    Hematocrit 43.7 %
    MCV 82.6 fl
    MCH 28.9 pg
    MCHC 35.0 g/dl
    RDW 12.8 %
    Thrombocytes 252 thousand/μl

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by ultrascope.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by ultrascope.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by ultrascope.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by ultrascope.
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CarbNite – excellent book, few questions left

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