German Volume training

[Greg l wilcox]

I searched with Google and found varied programs.Anybody have a good GVT they used with carb back loading?One question that keeps coming up, super setting the exercise.  Say bench with barbell row.  Sounds like some people are doing 10 reps of bench, then waiting 60 seconds and then 10 sets of rows, then repeat.Isn't that too much time off between the specific body part?Anybody have any routines they want to share?Thanks

[Roadblock]

These will help if you didn't see them yet.http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/german_volume_traininghttp://www.t-nation.com/training/return-of-german-volume-traininghttp://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/advanced_german_volume_trainingRB

[TCB]

Search the board for German Volume Training, or GVT.I know there have been a few threads about it, dunno if it'll answer your specific questions though.

[Brandon D Christ]

I searched with Google and found varied programs.Anybody have a good GVT they used with carb back loading?One question that keeps coming up, super setting the exercise.  Say bench with barbell row.  Sounds like some people are doing 10 reps of bench, then waiting 60 seconds and then 10 sets of rows, then repeat.Isn't that too much time off between the specific body part?Anybody have any routines they want to share?Thanks

You're supposed to do alternating sets when you do GVT.  Keep in mind GVT is really only appropriate for people who have only been training for a few years.  If you have been training for 5 years or more, I'd do AGVT instead.Here is how I would GVT:Chest/Horizontal PullDips - 10x10Bent over Row - 10x10Tricep Pushdowns - 3 sets of 10Curls - 3 sets of 10Legs 1Squat - 10x10Leg Curl - 10x10Hip Thrust - 3 sets of 10Hanging Leg Raise - 3 sets of 10Shoulders/Vertical Pull 1Military Press - 10x10Chin up - 10x10Tricep Extensions - 3x10Curls - 3x10Chest/Horizontal Pull 2Bench Press - 10x10DB Row - 10x10Tricep Pushdowns - 3 sets of 10Curls - 3 sets of 10Legs 245 degree back raise - 10x10Leg Press - 10x10Lunge - 3 sets of 10Hanging Leg Raise - 3 sets of 10Shoulders/Vertical Pull 2Incline Bench - 10x10Neutral Grip Chin up - 10x10Tricep Extensions - 3x10Curls - 3x10I'd use this split:Day 1:  Chest/Horizontal PullDay 2:  LegsDay 3:  OffDay 4:  Shoulders/Vertical PullDay 5:  OffYou will alternate between workout variations. 

[Greg l wilcox]

Ok, so set of dips, right to barbell row, then rest 90 secs.  Or rest 90 between each body part?I assume AGVT is advanced.  Do you recommend a routine for AGVT?Thanks

[Brandon D Christ]

Ok, so set of dips, right to barbell row, then rest 90 secs.  Or rest 90 between each body part?I assume AGVT is advanced.  Do you recommend a routine for AGVT?Thanks

You perform alternating sets, not supersets.  Rest 90 seconds between sets.  So you would do dips, rest 90 seconds, do rows, rest 90 seconds.  You could do them as supersets, but you will handle more weight with alternating sets.AGVT is the same, but you do 10 sets of 5 instead of 10 sets of 10.

[Greg l wilcox]

Thanks for the reply.  Seems like to much rest for a lighter weight.Is the benefit of working push-pull that much better than shorter rest?Do I keep the static weight at what my 20 rep would be?The AGVT, is the weight based on what I could do at 15 reps?Thanks

[Brandon D Christ]

Thanks for the reply.  Seems like to much rest for a lighter weight.Is the benefit of working push-pull that much better than shorter rest?Do I keep the static weight at what my 20 rep would be?The AGVT, is the weight based on what I could do at 15 reps?Thanks

The weight stays the same throughout the sets, keep in mind Poliquin does recommend 4 second eccentrics, so that will make the sets much harder.  Also you are doing 100 total reps.  That is a lot of volume.  The first 5 sets will be easy, but by the time the tenth set comes, it will be very difficult.AGVT you want to use about 75% of your max in that exercise.  That is about a 10 rep max.

[Greg l wilcox]

OkThanks for the infoI will try push pull, then maybe switch it up for a couple weeks and finish the push first then the pull.Thanks

[backlash79]

Thanks for the reply.  Seems like to much rest for a lighter weight.Is the benefit of working push-pull that much better than shorter rest?Do I keep the static weight at what my 20 rep would be?The AGVT, is the weight based on what I could do at 15 reps?Thanks

It doesn't feel like that long of a rest after the first few sets, the 4 second eccentric is pretty long.I'm starting cycle 4 of a 5 day split tomorrow. I've been increasing 5% when I am able  to hit all 100 reps at the given weight, this last cycle was the first time I wasn't able to hit all 100 reps in front squats.After I finish cycle 6 I'm planning on going to a "normal" routine for a few weeks then going to a 10x6 routinecheck out this article by Poliquin in which he lays out a 10x10 followed by a 10x6http://www.simplyshredded.com/german-volume-training-a-new-look-at-an-old-way-to-build-mass-strength.html

[Brandon D Christ]

Thanks for the reply.  Seems like to much rest for a lighter weight.Is the benefit of working push-pull that much better than shorter rest?Do I keep the static weight at what my 20 rep would be?The AGVT, is the weight based on what I could do at 15 reps?Thanks

It doesn't feel like that long of a rest after the first few sets, the 4 second eccentric is pretty long.I'm starting cycle 4 of a 5 day split tomorrow. I've been increasing 5% when I am able  to hit all 100 reps at the given weight, this last cycle was the first time I wasn't able to hit all 100 reps in front squats.After I finish cycle 6 I'm planning on going to a "normal" routine for a few weeks then going to a 10x6 routinecheck out this article by Poliquin in which he lays out a 10x10 followed by a 10x6http://www.simplyshredded.com/german-volume-training-a-new-look-at-an-old-way-to-build-mass-strength.html

That's a good article, that is the article I was referencing. 

[Greg l wilcox]

The article seems to indicate doing them in sequence( 60 second rest)Or superset, which would be; push, then pull right away, then 60 to 90 second rest.  I don't think you want to wait 60 to 90 seconds after the pull, then after the push. That would push the rest from pull to pull to over 3 minutes.I have done the Torq 4x method by Doug Brignole(.sp)Which is a 30 second rest with a weight you could rep out at 15, but you do 10 reps for 4 or 5 sets.I'm going to try the superset method. With a 4 second eccentric that gives me a roughly 50 second duration for each set. So that would equate to roughly 120 seconds between the set for the specific muscle.Damn I hate typing on a I Phone.

[Brandon D Christ]

The article seems to indicate doing them in sequence( 60 second rest)Or superset, which would be; push, then pull right away, then 60 to 90 second rest.  I don't think you want to wait 60 to 90 seconds after the pull, then after the push. That would push the rest from pull to pull to over 3 minutes.I have done the Torq 4x method by Doug Brignole(.sp)Which is a 30 second rest with a weight you could rep out at 15, but you do 10 reps for 4 or 5 sets.I'm going to try the superset method. With a 4 second eccentric that gives me a roughly 50 second duration for each set. So that would equate to roughly 120 seconds between the set for the specific muscle.Damn I hate typing on a I Phone.

You can try it, but as someone who has run this program several times, I'm telling you alternating sets are the way to go.

[Greg l wilcox]

Based on pure results with respect to adding muscle?Did you run out of gas doing the superset?  I'm lifting at 7:30pm at roughly 2,000 calories to that point.Thanks

[Brandon D Christ]

Based on pure results with respect to adding muscle?Did you run out of gas doing the superset?  I'm lifting at 7:30pm at roughly 2,000 calories to that point.Thanks

Not really, it's more CNS fatigue than anything.  Unless you are VERY new to training and you don't need much weight to trigger hypertrophy, you just won't get great results because the weight will be too low.  You essentially turn the workout into an endurance workout.

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