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I've seen the idea promoted on the forums that fat in the PWO shake will 'blunt' insulin, and that fat decreases the insulin spike in a meal. This study, though not ideal obviously suggests that fat increases the insulin response in a mixed meal and even when eating alone (20g butter)http://www.ajcn.org/content/94/4/997.abstract?etoc
Compared with the whole sandwich, ingestion of butter alone induced weaker but still significant incretin and GRd responses. Whereas it has been well documented that dietary lipids increase both the release of GIP and GLP-1 Principles and practices of kinetics analysis (7, 8, 21, 22, 25, 26) and glucose-stimulated insulin secretion (27), the relative contribution of fat to the overall incretin effect, have not been previously reported. In our study, plasma insulin, GIP, and GRd followed a similar time course, with a gradual increase that seemed to be ongoing 4 h after the meal.
Another that shows an insulin response from fat:http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/295/4/E779.full Perhaps Kiefer's observation that people who don't worry about the fat intake of their backloads tend to do better because their insulin is higher than without fat. Also, perhaps downing loads of butter first thing in the morning isn't the best fat loss plan?Anyone with scientific literacy to comment on the two studies above...[Ahem, Kiefer] I can only gather tentative conclusions at best...
Yea I always thought that downing a tablespoon of coconut oil and two tablespoons of butter was not the best idea when we are supposed to be fasting. You get an insulin response when you eat anything. Unfortunately the entire study isn't available for free ( I am not buiying it), so I didn't read them.
Oh wow so…a tbsp of coconut oil and a tbsp of butter isn't great for fat burning?? O.oSent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Oh wow so...a tbsp of coconut oil and a tbsp of butter isn't great for fat burning?? O.oSent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
I think 1 tablespoon of coconut oil is all you need.
Oh wow so...a tbsp of coconut oil and a tbsp of butter isn't great for fat burning?? O.oSent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
I think 1 tablespoon of coconut oil is all you need.
Alright well I'll start doing that tomorrow then, thanks!
Yea I always thought that downing a tablespoon of coconut oil and two tablespoons of butter was not the best idea when we are supposed to be fasting. You get an insulin response when you eat anything. Unfortunately the entire study isn't available for free ( I am not buiying it), so I didn't read them.
the links go to full texts of both studies. Just scroll down?
I wouldn't jump to conclusions until kiefer says anything. It's just that In the CBL book he only recommends 1T CO/MCT and heavy cream if you need the fat intake. There's nothing about loads of butter/cream on top of his recs. I'd like for him to look at these two studies and the links cited within them, but I'm sure he's quite busy.
Yea I always thought that downing a tablespoon of coconut oil and two tablespoons of butter was not the best idea when we are supposed to be fasting. You get an insulin response when you eat anything. Unfortunately the entire study isn't available for free ( I am not buiying it), so I didn't read them.
the links go to full texts of both studies. Just scroll down?
Oh ok the second one is free, but the first one isn't.
It is also one of those… it depends situations.Like Kiefer has said before some guy who is 250, 2 TB of coconut oil yes150 guy 1 TB finebut in either situation most people are adding at least 1 TB of heavy whipping cream.So unless your mass is less, it's all relative.
Yea I always thought that downing a tablespoon of coconut oil and two tablespoons of butter was not the best idea when we are supposed to be fasting. You get an insulin response when you eat anything. Unfortunately the entire study isn't available for free ( I am not buiying it), so I didn't read them.
the links go to full texts of both studies. Just scroll down?
Oh ok the second one is free, but the first one isn't.
Ah Im sorry I didn't notice my uni logs me in automatically 😉
Contributions of fat and protein to the incretin effect of a mixed meal1,2,3http://www.ajcn.org/content/94/4/997.abstract?etocHere is what I'm getting from this abstract. It may not be the butter because they were all hooked to IV's infusing glucose into them. From the abstract:"Meals were ingested during a hyperglycemic clamp, and the incretin effect was calculated as the increment in plasma insulin after food intake relative to the concentrations observed during the control study."The folks in each group were hooked to an IV that feeds them glucose to maintain their blood sugar levels at a specific level. The control group was only given water and served as the basis for comparing the rise in their insulin levels with the experimental groups. In the control (water only) group, their insulin level rose in response to the blood glucose and this response was tracked to create a baseline. The IV continues to pump blood glucose into the volunteers in a dose dependent manner based on their insulin response in order to maintain the same blood glucose level among all the volunteers. The other groups were fed the mixed meals which then caused an additional change in the release of insulin. So, perhaps the butter increased fatty acids which enhanced the release of insulin. The protein increase of amino acids did not have an effect. The mixed meal gave them more carbs, fat, and protein which enhanced the insulin response the most. Based on this study, it would not be determinable if butter by itself would have an effect on insulin response because the glucose is getting the insulin release started. The butter may just be an enhancer and have little effect by itself.
Yeah I saw that part. Still I'm not knowledgeable enough on physiology to comment if it makes a huge difference or none at all. If they were fasted there would still be blood glucose. Again I don't know enough to comment. :-X
Uh oh, lots of misinformation in this thread. Sorry I'm just seeing this now…#1, Fat alone cannot stimulate insulin.#2, Certain kinds of fat help increase the insulin response to the presence of glucose. Saturated fat (e.g. from butter) seems to do it more than other kinds of fat. Which may help explain why pizza seems to be the Perfect Back-Loading Food.
Uh oh, lots of misinformation in this thread. Sorry I'm just seeing this now...#1, Fat alone cannot stimulate insulin.#2, Certain kinds of fat help increase the insulin response to the presence of glucose. Saturated fat (e.g. from butter) seems to do it more than other kinds of fat. Which may help explain why pizza seems to be the Perfect Back-Loading Food.
Ah a very useful piece of information. That probably explains why doughnuts are good as well. My completely unscientific hypothesis is that if the food tastes good and is very satisfying, the insulin response will by sky high. High glycemic carbs, saturated fat, and toss in a bit protein, 9/10 it will be a VERY tasty and satisfying food.
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