- This topic has 5 voices and 19 replies.
-
Posts
-
Hi,I am new to the forums.I have pretty specific questions, and I was hoping to get some insight on how to make this work, given my lifestyle.I had been using Carb Back-Loading, and I was losing fat, but VERY slowly (about 1/2 lb a week). This was to be expected, but I have decided I want to drop fat a bit faster, to lean-out. Then, go back to back-loading at a more respectable weight. That said, I want to retain all of my hard-earned muscle.I recently purchased Carb Nite Solution, but I am unclear how to make something work.I weight train (for hypertrophy and strength) four days a week. I also train in Kyokushin Karate (basics, pad training, and full-contact sparring) for two-hours on three nights a week (Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays). I am a competative fighter, so the Karate training is an integral part of my life-style, as is the weight-training.::MY CONCERN & QUESTIONS::How can I make this work while using Carb Nite Solution? Would you all considered this HIIT training? The classes are two hours long (7-9pm), and you cannot sustain HIIT for that long w/o burning out. Therefore, I (personally) don't consider it to be fully "HIIT". We do explosive pad training, sometimes, but there is also a great deal of the class that is spent with just basic techniques in repetitions, and of course sparring (which simulates a real fight). About 1/3 of a class is dedicated to basics, 1/3 to pad training, and 1/3 to sparring. We also take 2-minute complete rests, here and there, throughout.Should I increase my protein intake to 1.75g+ per pound of bodyweight a day, and add 5-10g BCAA's before, during, and after training to prevent muscle wasting? Those are my current thoughts.Just looking for advice from those who have been doing this for a while, or have experience with this or similar to this, to make this work.Thank you.Cory
Hi,I am new to the forums.I have pretty specific questions, and I was hoping to get some insight on how to make this work, given my lifestyle.I had been using Carb Back-Loading, and I was losing fat, but VERY slowly (about 1/2 lb a week). This was to be expected, but I have decided I want to drop fat a bit faster, to lean-out. Then, go back to back-loading at a more respectable weight. That said, I want to retain all of my hard-earned muscle.I recently purchased Carb Nite Solution, but I am unclear how to make something work.I weight train (for hypertrophy and strength) four days a week. I also train in Kyokushin Karate (basics, pad training, and full-contact sparring) for two-hours on three nights a week (Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays). I am a competative fighter, so the Karate training is an integral part of my life-style, as is the weight-training.::MY CONCERN & QUESTIONS::How can I make this work while using Carb Nite Solution? Would you all considered this HIIT training? The classes are two hours long (7-9pm), and you cannot sustain HIIT for that long w/o burning out. Therefore, I (personally) don't consider it to be fully "HIIT". We do explosive pad training, sometimes, but there is also a great deal of the class that is spent with just basic techniques in repetitions, and of course sparring (which simulates a real fight). About 1/3 of a class is dedicated to basics, 1/3 to pad training, and 1/3 to sparring. We also take 2-minute complete rests, here and there, throughout.Should I increase my protein intake to 1.75g+ per pound of bodyweight a day, and add 5-10g BCAA's before, during, and after training to prevent muscle wasting? Those are my current thoughts.Just looking for advice from those who have been doing this for a while, or have experience with this or similar to this, to make this work.Thank you.Cory
Hey Cory, you don't need more than 1.3g/lb protein, ever. If you need more calories and you are on CNS, resort to fat. Be friendly to coconut oil and MCT. It will not make you fat. Your body will use that for energy. If your body senses that you have a lot of protein lying around, its going to set up the enzyme system that burns protein rather than fats for fuels and will convert those to glycogen (and that's when it stars eating into your skeletal muscle fat). It's kinda like telling your body, "hey I just got enough of those to lift the heavy things (meaning your muscles and protein), don't use that, lookie over here, LOTS of fat, use that instead" It may take several tries before this process it optimized (as in carbnite weekly cycles). Your body needs to be trained to use fats for fuels as well. If it has not done that or has not done it in a while, it will be rough going for a bit, but it gets better. BUT it won't do it unless there's enough fat lying around (you didn't mention your current bf level). Make sure you stock up on carbs well on carbnite. It will help you burn the fat the days after.BTW, you were doing CBL, did you buy the book or were you doing it through collected info? If you bought the book, register so you can access the official CBL Q&A
Conrad,Thank you for your reply.I guess I am still under the influence of the magazines, etc. Thinking 1.5 - 2g per lb, for protein. I am still thinking in set macros. Even my CBL diet has a base plan, which I add to / modify depending on how I feel in a given day.I do, currently, take coconut oil w/ my coffee, upon waking, and at other times during the day. My current bodyfat is not great, it was around 18% when I last checked -- must have gone down some, as I've dropped two pounds on the scale using CBL for about a month now, yet my muscles look fuller and bigger, and I am eating over 4000 cals a day on CBL. Plus, my measurements have gone up (like arms, up a 1/4 inch). A lot of that is probably glyco / water.I am naturally endomorphic (metabolism), even though my structure is more mesomorphic. Even on a classic strict, clean 'bulking' diet, I gain both muscle and fat quite equally. That is why CBL caught my attention, and it appears to be working. I am only switching to CNS, to speed up the fat loss, get down to a decent level, and then go back on CBL indefinitely.I do not have the CBL e-book / book. I simply could not afford $80-ish. I recently got a copy of Carb Nite (new) at Amazon for $21. Everything I know about CBL comes from various forums, blogs, logs, and M&F / Flex articles. Even my meal plans (for on / off days) were based on the meal plans provided in the M&F Mar. 2011 issue.In case you were wondering, I currently train using a version of Haney Rambod's FST-7, so the volume is very appropriate. We, Th, Sa, Su are lifting days, and Mo, Tu, Fr are Karate training. I do not lift on the days I train Kyokushin. I generally take zero full-rest days.Cory
I do taekwondo and vale tudo, though not for 2 hours at a time. My classes are 45 minutes long. I'd suggest coffee with MCT oil or coconut oil prior to training, and possibly sipping a maltodextrin/dextrose drink throughout class. You may consider PMing Naomi to ask Kiefer this question with a link to this thread.
Conrad,Thank you for your reply.I guess I am still under the influence of the magazines, etc. Thinking 1.5 - 2g per lb, for protein. I am still thinking in set macros. Even my CBL diet has a base plan, which I add to / modify depending on how I feel in a given day.I do, currently, take coconut oil w/ my coffee, upon waking, and at other times during the day. My current bodyfat is not great, it was around 18% when I last checked -- must have gone down some, as I've dropped two pounds on the scale using CBL for about a month now, yet my muscles look fuller and bigger, and I am eating over 4000 cals a day on CBL. Plus, my measurements have gone up (like arms, up a 1/4 inch). A lot of that is probably glyco / water.I am naturally endomorphic (metabolism), even though my structure is more mesomorphic. Even on a classic strict, clean 'bulking' diet, I gain both muscle and fat quite equally. That is why CBL caught my attention, and it appears to be working. I am only switching to CNS, to speed up the fat loss, get down to a decent level, and then go back on CBL indefinitely.I do not have the CBL e-book / book. I simply could not afford $80-ish. I recently got a copy of Carb Nite (new) at Amazon for $21. Everything I know about CBL comes from various forums, blogs, logs, and M&F / Flex articles. Even my meal plans (for on / off days) were based on the meal plans provided in the M&F Mar. 2011 issue.In case you were wondering, I currently train using a version of Haney Rambod's FST-7, so the volume is very appropriate. We, Th, Sa, Su are lifting days, and Mo, Tu, Fr are Karate training. I do not lift on the days I train Kyokushin. I generally take zero full-rest days.Cory
No rest days? I see the Central Nervous System being stressed out, cortisol levels remaining elevated . . . you may be working against your goals. I know money is an issue for many . . . the CBL book though is chock full of info that is very useful, but without it these forums are a great help.
I do taekwondo and vale tudo, though not for 2 hours at a time. You may consider PMing Naomi to ask Kiefer this question with a link to this thread.
+1 on the PM to Naomi.
Thank you both.Currently (using CBL): Before martial arts training, I consume 1 scoop of whey isolate (24g protein) w/ 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil (7g fat), and 1 cup of coffee. On top of this, I take 1.5g Acetyl-L-Carnitine (to mobilize fat for energy), 5g Glutamine, 5g Creatine, and 3g Citrulline Malate (I gave up on Arganine AKG, due to research leaning favorably towards Citrulline).During martial arts training, I sip 5g BCAA's w/ 5g Creatine, and a pinch of salt.Post-training (martial arts), I drink 2 scoops of whey isolate (48g protein) w/ 1/4 cup walnuts, 5g creatine, 10g BCAA's, 10g Glutamine.This is different on weight training days, where I consume fast carbs post-workout (60g from sugar), and no walnuts.However, I am not sure any of that will be relevant on CNS. Or, maybe it will be? I just PM'd Naomi.Thank you both, again.
Having done training like you're talking about — I got to brown belt in goju ryu karate and also spent 2 hours a week doing kobudo — I have a pretty good idea of what you're doing, activity wise.Have you done HIIT apart from your karate classes? If so, then you will know the feeling of HIIT. I'm betting each class is different -- some more strenuous and nonstop than others. Some sparring can definitely be high-intensity, but if you're just standing waiting for the next match, then that's not really HIIT. Some "basic training" can definitely be intense, or it could just be that you're holding a fighting stance for a few minutes while your sensei yaps. I know how it goes.So it's hard to say, and since every class is a bit different (I'm guessing), that means every day's nutrition will be a bit different. Which by extension means you should be focusing on learning how to nutritionally react to (or pre-empt, if you can) your day's activities and how you feel in the aftermath.The guys have given you some great advice so far: get more fats, you don't need that much protein, and definitely think about scheduling yourself a rest day -- perhaps by shifting to a 2-day split. Chances are you don't need to focus any specific attention on abs and arms when you lift heavy, though I don't know enough what your karate training is like to make that assertion.How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? Do you get a lot of sleep?IN GENERAL, you SHOULD be able to do your 2-hour training no problem just on fats alone. You may not be as high-energy as you could potentially be, but you'll be burning that body fat off pretty steadily, and you'll feel "good enough".
Hi Naomi,First, thank you for taking the time to reply. Goju-Ryu is one of the two Karate forms that gave birth to Kyokushin, so I can imagine our training has similarities.I've done HIIT outside of Karate. HIIT cardio on various pieces of equipment, as well as Tabata protocol type work. The only thing comparable, in Kyokushin, would be the pre-tournament pad training that my Sensei is known for. Often, once or twice a week, we hit pads in a HIIT fashion: i.e., 20-seconds non-stop punching or kicking, followed by 10-seconds rest... repeat 4 or more times. Slowing down or not pushing one's self results in a quick beating with the shinai via Sensei (really old school). Sometimes we do this while strapped to exercise bands (to add resistance). So, it can get so intense, that students end up vomitting...Basics feel like steady-state, either in-place, or with paced footwork across the dojo. Sparring is very off-on, b/c you are often waiting for your match, like you mentioned. Sometimes, we do go for multiple rounds in a row.I will keep my fats high (relative to protein). My protein levels are currently slightly over 1g per pound of lean bodyweight. I will definitely not let that exceed 1.3g per pound, per advice. Useable carbs remain at or under 30g per day.I think I might adjust my weight training to 3-day split, and take Sunday as FULL rest. That is how I used to train, and did quite well, but bumped it to 7-days about 4 months ago.I am freshly 31 years old. I get by fine on 6-8 hours sleep. Any more than 8, or any less than 6, and I feel like death.Cory
We have a lot of things in common!OK, everything sounds good and manageable for Carb Nite. With those really high intensity drills in the mix, you could take a large dose of coconut oil optimally 20 minutes before this part of the class and experience a good burst of energy. If you don't have the ability to time things that way (senseis can be so fickle), do a large coffee with coconut oil and cream (3 or more Tbsp of fat) right before class so you get a mix of fast- and slow-digesting fats.
Thank you, Naomi.I will try increasing the oils, pre-workout, with coffee. See how that goes. You're right, my energy levels seemed to be on a decline, which affected my pad training and sparring. Hopefully, the increased oils will remedy this. I currently take 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil + 1 cup of coffee, pre-training. I will increase that to 3 tbsp of oil, see if that changes things.CoryThe only thing I am going to have to get used to, is the lack of a day-long "pump" or "fullness", that I get when back-loading or eating carbs on mass-gain. Can't wait for my carb nite! Mostly b/c I hate feeling / looking flatter.
Thank you, Naomi.I will try increasing the oils, pre-workout, with coffee. See how that goes. You're right, my energy levels seemed to be on a decline, which affected my pad training and sparring. Hopefully, the increased oils will remedy this. I currently take 1/2 tbsp of coconut oil + 1 cup of coffee, pre-training. I will increase that to 3 tbsp of oil, see if that changes things.CoryThe only thing I am going to have to get used to, is the lack of a day-long "pump" or "fullness", that I get when back-loading or eating carbs on mass-gain. Can't wait for my carb nite! Mostly b/c I hate feeling / looking flatter.
I totally know how you feel!Let us know how the added fats before training works out for you.
I will let you know tomorrow, Naomi. I spar tomorrow night, per usual, with tons of pad training and drills. We are in tournament prep mode, right now, for May 19th. So, our training is balls-to-the-walls.That said, on May 18th, I plan to Carb Nite, so that I am pumped and energized for my fights on the 19th. I will also use this coffee + cream concauction, pre-fight:2 tsp instant coffee (yeilds 2 cups)4 tbsp heavy whipping cream1 tbsp coconut oil...my version of the "Bulletproof Coffee".Thank you!Cory
REPORT:OK. Wow! 😀I used my version of Bulletproof Coffee, right before Karate. My energy was sky high! Now, this might be a freak incident, I will have to see how it keeps going, but it worked Friday night, for class. Got me through fast-paced basics and HIIT-style pad-training. I had to miss the sparring, b/c I have a slight knee injury that needs to heal before my fight, and not get exacerbated.The ingredients, again:2 tsp Instant Coffee (Whole Foods' 365 brand)4 tbsp Heavy Whipping Cream (organic)1 tbsp Coconut Oil (virgin, unrefined, expeller pressed, organic)I am still going to "Carb Nite" the night before my fight, on May 19th, but this coffee mix really worked!Thank you all for your help!Cory
In line with this thread, I have a grappling tournament next Saturday. I'll be in the sub 202lb bracket. At 196.6lb this morning but have my carb nite right now (HOLLA!). Weigh-ins are 1pm for my bracket, so to not worry so much about scale variations, my plan is to just have a bulletproof coffee in the morning (12oz coffee, 2tbsp butter, 1tbsp MCT oil, 2tbsp HWC), and then I'm not sure yet what to do after weigh-ins. competition starts at 2:30pm. A few carbs before? A bunch of carbs? No carbs? I'm thinking about more coffee with MCT oil 30 minutes prior to warming up, and then sipping a dextrose drink after my first fight but not totally sure if that's the best idea or not. The fights are two, 3 minute rounds (unless there is a submission), and I could have up to four matches.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.