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I've heard Kiefer say to avoid protein supplements in the ULC portion of the day. I'd be interested in clarification on this. I think this is to avoid a protein initiated insulin spike, but I imagine that wouldn't be a concern if the protein was mixed with enough fat. For example, I sometimes will mix 15 to 30 grams of whey with 3 to 6 tablespoons of heavy cream in my coffee & have that in the late morning. It's a nice rich coffee taste that will hold me over for hours.
Here's a set of questions that I think fits into the goals of the podcasts and would be especially interesting to people raising kids. I would like to hear Kiefer & Dr. Patels take on preventing a lot of problems by getting kids to eat in a healthier pattern and how carb meal frequency would work with children (under 18). It seems limiting carbs during the day while allowing them at night would be a good first step. Would kids benefit from more frequent refeeds since they're still growing? I assume there'll be lots of differences to discuss. Males vs females, where they are with respect to puberty, genetic factors & upbringing differences. For example, with upbringing, some people will over-ride their children's natural satiety signals by making them eat everything on their plate. My parents seemed to have been big on that.I personally find it interesting that my 8 yr old son eats oatmeal for breakfast every day (sometimes with cereal on top) and is thin as a rail. However he's extremely good at saying he's full & will even throw away an ice cream cone when he's reached "fullness". Therefore, I never push him to eat beyond that. My 12 yr old daughter is not a big breakfast eater and we never pushed her. However she'll go crazy on the carbs at night & we're trying to keep a lot less sugar rich foods around because of that. She's at the point in development where her body wants to put on fat and we're wondering if maybe dietary intervention will help minimize excess fat gain.
Did anyone read this article?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21179166/In the same podcast as the bullet proof coffee discussion, Kiefer says that you need mTOR up regulation in the liver to activate ketogenesis. He says this is why carb nite is better than going strict keto and that periodic insulin spike and mTOR activation with carb nite is necessary to keep the ketone production up in the liver. He cited the above study. I've read the abstract couple of times now and I read it opposite to what Kiefer was saying. Ie mTOR inhibition increases ketogenesis. Ageing also decreases ketogenesis and that mTOR inhibition can prevent age related defect in ketogenesis.What do you guys think?
As to butter vs cream discussion, I like the taste of cream and it's more convenient because you don't need a blender. I seem to be able to go longer without food with butter though.As to MCT vs coconut oil, Dominic D'Agostino said in a podcast with Ben Greenfield that he has a tablespoon of pure caprylic acid (C8 ) with tablespoon of ketone salt (Ketoforce) about an hour before he trains. If you want to be in ketosis whether it be for training or for increased concentration, epilepsy or whatever, C8 caprylic acid (Dave Asprey's Brain Octane Oil is what I use) is better than C8 & C10 MCT which is better than coconut oil. BTW Kiefer hasn't listed any studies regarding the harmful effects of C8 which would be interesting.
What do you guys think of Keifer's opinions on butter and cream. Personally, I agree with him. I'll take cream any day over butter in my coffee. I never cared for the butter. I always thought it tasted like shit and was a pain in the ass.Also his opinion on MCT oil was a pretty big bombshell. I wish he went more in depth on it though.
I tried butter in coffee but it wasn't very good. Not heard Kiefers opinion on it yet, but I have a coffee around 8:00am with 100ml of HWC and another around 10:30am with 100ml of HWC. keeps me nicely filled up until around noon for lunch. Doesn't seem to affect any sort of fat loss on CNS. If anything the extra amount of HWC has helped.
Here's a set of questions that I think fits into the goals of the podcasts and would be especially interesting to people raising kids. I would like to hear Kiefer & Dr. Patels take on preventing a lot of problems by getting kids to eat in a healthier pattern and how carb meal frequency would work with children (under 18). It seems limiting carbs during the day while allowing them at night would be a good first step. Would kids benefit from more frequent refeeds since they're still growing? I assume there'll be lots of differences to discuss. Males vs females, where they are with respect to puberty, genetic factors & upbringing differences. For example, with upbringing, some people will over-ride their children's natural satiety signals by making them eat everything on their plate. My parents seemed to have been big on that.
Yeah great idea. Instill orthorexia from a young age
I personally find it interesting that my 8 yr old son eats oatmeal for breakfast every day (sometimes with cereal on top) and is thin as a rail. However he's extremely good at saying he's full & will even throw away an ice cream cone when he's reached "fullness". Therefore, I never push him to eat beyond that. My 12 yr old daughter is not a big breakfast eater and we never pushed her. However she'll go crazy on the carbs at night & we're trying to keep a lot less sugar rich foods around because of that. She's at the point in development where her body wants to put on fat and we're wondering if maybe dietary intervention will help minimize excess fat gain.
Maybe he's thin because he's growing and because he's not over eating? Maybe Oats just aint that bad? I find it interesting that you wont force your son to eat more, yet you are tayloring your food in the house to restrict your daughter. How is it that you can trust your sons satiety signals but not your daughters? Considering that most people that diet from early age tend to be even worse off in later years I wouldn't get too involved in forcing or restricting any particular dietary approach. Maybe teach the kids to recognise how food effects them and how it makes them feel. Knowing how one's body reacts to a particular food is far more important than where it sits on a "good food/bad food" list.
I've never been a parent, but if I was I would just limit junk food. Like Gl;tche, I'd be afraid they'd develop some sort of complex with food.
Here's a set of questions that I think fits into the goals of the podcasts and would be especially interesting to people raising kids. I would like to hear Kiefer & Dr. Patels take on preventing a lot of problems by getting kids to eat in a healthier pattern and how carb meal frequency would work with children (under 18). It seems limiting carbs during the day while allowing them at night would be a good first step. Would kids benefit from more frequent refeeds since they're still growing? I assume there'll be lots of differences to discuss. Males vs females, where they are with respect to puberty, genetic factors & upbringing differences. For example, with upbringing, some people will over-ride their children's natural satiety signals by making them eat everything on their plate. My parents seemed to have been big on that.
Yeah great idea. Instill orthorexia from a young age
I personally find it interesting that my 8 yr old son eats oatmeal for breakfast every day (sometimes with cereal on top) and is thin as a rail. However he's extremely good at saying he's full & will even throw away an ice cream cone when he's reached "fullness". Therefore, I never push him to eat beyond that. My 12 yr old daughter is not a big breakfast eater and we never pushed her. However she'll go crazy on the carbs at night & we're trying to keep a lot less sugar rich foods around because of that. She's at the point in development where her body wants to put on fat and we're wondering if maybe dietary intervention will help minimize excess fat gain.
Maybe he's thin because he's growing and because he's not over eating? Maybe Oats just aint that bad? I find it interesting that you wont force your son to eat more, yet you are tayloring your food in the house to restrict your daughter. How is it that you can trust your sons satiety signals but not your daughters? Considering that most people that diet from early age tend to be even worse off in later years I wouldn't get too involved in forcing or restricting any particular dietary approach. Maybe teach the kids to recognise how food effects them and how it makes them feel. Knowing how one's body reacts to a particular food is far more important than where it sits on a "good food/bad food" list.
Before I address your comments further, you should know that this is an inappropriate and insulting way to comment to a parent about their children. Most of us are doing the best we can to not screw up our kids and correct all the misinformation they hear from school and media. Implying that I want to give my kids an eating disorder is an insult. You don't know me, my wife, how we were raised or anything about our genetics. You have no insight into our lives outside of a single example with limited information and context. On the other hand, my wife & I have the benefit of being with them practically every day of their lives and are closer to the kids genetically than anyone else on earth. This means that as a parent, when you see common traits (positive or negative) in your kids you may have the best insight on how to manage them. Please think about this the next time you address a parent.First off, the thing that sparked my original question was a comment in one of the podcasts about high school students taking some kind of low carb paleo bars to school to eat vs the school lunches. That got me to thinking it would be an interesting topic to hear from them on, especially in light of Kiefers personal experiences as a "fat kid" and Dr. Rockys family medicine background.Just to clarify:1) I never said oats were bad and you would not believe how many times I have to defend him from relatives who think it's in his best interest to eat more. 2) Dietary intervention probably doesn't mean the same thing to both of us. My parents gave me endless grief about my "picky" eating habits when I was a kid, so I am particularly sensitive to this issue. I would never think about laying down a rule like: "you cannot have carbs before 5PM" to my kids. That would pretty much guarantee they'd sneak a cookie whenever possible. The idea is to be able to provide some information to kids at a level they can understand and debunk the misinformation. For instance, last night my 8 yr old son asked me if fat was bad for you (as he was cutting it off his grilled chicken thigh). Apparently his "old-school" elementary gym teacher has been instilling a fear of fat in the kids all year - he keeps telling the class how bad dietary fat is. If anyone is going to instill orthorexia in children it's this guy! Both my kids are pretty skinny because they're growing and we feed them mostly whole foods. However, at some point a kids growth slows and they can't get away with as many poor food choices. It's not about putting them on a diet, but getting them to understand their bodies will change and how their food choices impact their health and fitness. Finally my examples were just a general observation that it's interesting the two kids are so different. My wife originally expressed concern about my daughter because she has much more of a sweet tooth than my son - not because we think she's fat. I personally think my daughter's in great shape, but if she keeps doing things like eating ice cream every night it's going to catch up with her. I personally find it hard to understand how my son can NOT finish an ice cream cone, but can very well see my own sweet tooth habit potential in my daughter. I also know from personal experience that one can be a very skinny kid up till you're a teenager and then start packing on the fat from junk food. It has also been shown that desserts like ice cream can trigger addictive responses in the brain. Kiefer has addressed dairy before, here's an interesting paper on brain response to ice-cream consumption: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/810.long In general, it sounds like we both agree that it's not good to completely keep ban things like ice cream or home-made chocolate chip cookies (which my daughter makes from scratch every weekend). Like alcohol, I believe it's better to realize there's a time, place and appropriate quantity rather than to ban it altogether (yes, our kids can have wine at holiday dinners if they'd like). I think this limit on carb timing, rather than elimination of treats, is one reason CBL & Carb nite are pretty easy to stick to for long periods of time. You know you'll be able to eat a doughnut, it's just better for you if you do it at certain times & frequencies.
***NEW QUESTION**I lift in the morning, heavy, for 1 hour, Monday to Friday. Kiefer originally wrote in CBL to have 40 grams carbs post workout then none until dinner. He later advised just whey hydrolysates, 10g leucine, and MCT oil. I know we want to avoid an insulin spike early in the day to continue fat mobilization.... so would eggs and bacon be better post workout in the morning so there is no insulin spike from the leucine and hydrolysate shake??Modify message
Pretty sure in a recent interview Kiefer went over this with the host:http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2014/07/16/eat-like-a-pig-lose-fat-with-john-kiefer-1http://body.io/around-web/Eggs, bacon did come up!
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