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Awesome that there's some Westsiders here. Honestly, all I ever cared about was strength. So when I first saw CBL, I figured it was for all the pussies that pissed their pants about the numbers on the scale, but could never even dream about pulling 500 off the floor. Then one day I was reading an interview with Brian Carroll in Power magazine. He was raving about CBL and how it had jacked his strength through the roof. I figured it couldn't hurt to try it, so here I am. Oh, and yes, I do compete. I have a meet scheduled for this June. Also, you CAN pick up the Westside method without getting the book, but if there's any way possible to get it, I highly recommend it. Louie is an absolute genius, and I didn't start to REALLY get the conjugate method until I read the book.
I am giving Westside a look. I've been reading whatever Louie Simmons articles I could find. One thing that he seems to say that makes sense is that the triceps are more important in the bench press than the chest. This makes sense because it always seemed that my triceps were always doing most of the work in the bench press.I know Westside is Louie's creation, but who else is good?
.I know Westside is Louie's creation, but who else is good?
What do you mean, who else is good?? Programs? Lifters??
No, I mean articles and reading materials that pertain to Westside.
Much of the stuff you can find on Elitefts.com (and from Dave Tate) has to do with Westside... Look for articles pertaining to Max effort, dynamic effort, cycles, etc. Several of the sponsored athletes on the site train westside or at least very similar. Many lifters that originally trained westside tweak things based on their strengths/weaknesses (just like doing CBL or CNS, it's different for every person). A lot of the old articles in Powerlifting USA magazines have a lot to do with westside training.but yeah, check out elitefts.com
No, I mean articles and reading materials that pertain to Westside.
Much of the stuff you can find on Elitefts.com (and from Dave Tate) has to do with Westside... Look for articles pertaining to Max effort, dynamic effort, cycles, etc. Several of the sponsored athletes on the site train westside or at least very similar. Many lifters that originally trained westside tweak things based on their strengths/weaknesses (just like doing CBL or CNS, it's different for every person). A lot of the old articles in Powerlifting USA magazines have a lot to do with westside training.but yeah, check out elitefts.com
Well I'm going to give powerlifting training a go. I went to the local Powerlifting gym by where I live. I spoke to the owner (his name is Jamie Harris, I think he is fairly well known in Powerlifting). He is letting me do a bench press workout with the gym's team on Saturday morning. Very cool! I am nervous, but also very excited!I once gave powerlifting a shot in college, but I had no guidance or anyone to train with, so it never really unfolded. If all goes well, maybe I will start training for competitions in the sport!
Yes, Jamie would be great to work with! Good guidance and good training partners are much needed! Good luck!
You will love the style of training. Its just awesome to throw around big weight especially when doing stuff with reverse bands. You can also still keep all assistance work body building style. Works great for us.
Would those who use it comment on whether they compete raw or geared? I train at a gym that primarily uses Westside, but I myself stick to 5/3/1 after maybe 6 months of training Westside. (I've done 5/3/1 for ~7 months and have made awesome progress). Of the guys at our gym, I think a few have made great gains with it, though they're fairly beat up all the time. Of those, 3 are multiply lifters. We have a few younger lifters who really haven't made a ton of progress in ~2 years, though. They are raw lifters. Some of it is on them, but some of it is crappy programming and actually never learning the lifts, because they're always doing variations.Concerns I have with it for the newbie lifters:-Form: never learning how to squat/dead/bench properly. I train with a bunch of guys who are pretty decent box squatter, and pretty shitty free squatters. I've missed maybe 2-3 squats in my entire lifting career (3 years). Probably because I squat all the time.-Messing up the intention of speed work: Guys get to married to the percentages. When you're not very experienced, throwing a band or chains onto your set adds a significant percentage of your max onto the bar. Speed day ends up smashing guys. I recall hearing Vince Dizenzo saying that when he first started doing DE bench work, he was using ~185 as a 500lb raw bencher. Either use very little accommodating resistance, or bring the % down until you have a feel for what it is you're doing.-Hitting failure a lot: I feel like every ME session, guys work up to failure. And not that grind it out almost got it failure, that smashed instantly failure. This is bad. Then they even try the weight again! This is awful. Missing lifts is for the birds. Concerns I have with it for everyone:- Highly dependent on assistance work. If you train by yourself, not always easy to find the motivation (or know how, for that matter). If you train in groups, not always easy to have the time.- Lack of overhead work. If you're not doing HEAVY overhead pressing, you're missing out.Basically, I would have no problem training in this manner if I trained at westside, supertraining, or any other well respected "westside" gym. But I'd be very wary about training myself with it, or working with a coach I wasn't quite sure about.
Would those who use it comment on whether they compete raw or geared? I train at a gym that primarily uses Westside, but I myself stick to 5/3/1 after maybe 6 months of training Westside. (I've done 5/3/1 for ~7 months and have made awesome progress). Of the guys at our gym, I think a few have made great gains with it, though they're fairly beat up all the time. Of those, 3 are multiply lifters. We have a few younger lifters who really haven't made a ton of progress in ~2 years, though. They are raw lifters. Some of it is on them, but some of it is crappy programming and actually never learning the lifts, because they're always doing variations.Concerns I have with it for the newbie lifters:-Form: never learning how to squat/dead/bench properly. I train with a bunch of guys who are pretty decent box squatter, and pretty shitty free squatters. I've missed maybe 2-3 squats in my entire lifting career (3 years). Probably because I squat all the time.From everything I've heard if you're doing Westside and going to go about it as a raw lifter you need to actually free squat more. Also, if you are box squatting vary the box heights is essential (slight above, at, and slightly below parallel)-Messing up the intention of speed work: Guys get to married to the percentages. When you're not very experienced, throwing a band or chains onto your set adds a significant percentage of your max onto the bar. Speed day ends up smashing guys. I recall hearing Vince Dizenzo saying that when he first started doing DE bench work, he was using ~185 as a 500lb raw bencher. Either use very little accommodating resistance, or bring the % down until you have a feel for what it is you're doing.I think a lot recommend to start at as low as 30% and increase it in waves so long as the bar speed remains what it needs to be.-Hitting failure a lot: I feel like every ME session, guys work up to failure. And not that grind it out almost got it failure, that smashed instantly failure. This is bad. Then they even try the weight again! This is awful. Missing lifts is for the birds.From what I know, this is where individual preferences/auto regulation come in to play. From the interviews I've seen with Louie he has them work up to a 1 or 3 rep max depending on how they feel. Concerns I have with it for everyone:- Highly dependent on assistance work. If you train by yourself, not always easy to find the motivation (or know how, for that matter). If you train in groups, not always easy to have the time.I don't think there's any way to get around this no matter the program. You need assistance lifts to build your main lifts and fix imbalances. 5/3/1 (which I run as well) works on the same premise.- Lack of overhead work. If you're not doing HEAVY overhead pressing, you're missing out.You could easily add this in as assistance work.Basically, I would have no problem training in this manner if I trained at westside, supertraining, or any other well respected "westside" gym. But I'd be very wary about training myself with it, or working with a coach I wasn't quite sure about.
Note: I train 5/3/1 and not Westside so this is mainly based on the information I have read about Westside and how Louie has (not necessary does) run it.
sounds like the experiences you've seen regarding westside have to do with that individual or that gym. Westside is a template to follow. if guys are misinterpreting dynamic days or getting smash on ME day, then THEY are screwing it up. it's not necessarily the program.-Form: never learning how to squat/dead/bench properly. I train with a bunch of guys who are pretty decent box squatter, and pretty shitty free squatters. I've missed maybe 2-3 squats in my entire lifting career (3 years). Probably because I squat all the time. again, this is a coaching issue. some people bastardize the program... they look like crap, then so does the program. i know a lot of good box squatters who look impeccable free squatting-Messing up the intention of speed work: Guys get to married to the percentages. When you're not very experienced, throwing a band or chains onto your set adds a significant percentage of your max onto the bar. Speed day ends up smashing guys. I recall hearing Vince Dizenzo saying that when he first started doing DE bench work, he was using ~185 as a 500lb raw bencher. Either use very little accommodating resistance, or bring the % down until you have a feel for what it is you're doing.again, i feel this is a bastardization of the program. I don't even go off of percentages. i go by bar speed.-Hitting failure a lot: I feel like every ME session, guys work up to failure. And not that grind it out almost got it failure, that smashed instantly failure. This is bad. Then they even try the weight again! This is awful. Missing lifts is for the birds. again, they don't know their own body. it's called training smart. or their egos are getting the best of them- Highly dependent on assistance work. If you train by yourself, not always easy to find the motivation (or know how, for that matter). If you train in groups, not always easy to have the time.again, no fault of the program, but the individual.- Lack of overhead work. If you're not doing HEAVY overhead pressing, you're missing out.my husband and i overhead press. and i know others who do. some of it is an injury/mobility issue for bigger guys. that, or they've tried overhead pressing and don't see a carry over.I'm not saying that what you wrote aren't legit concerns. but most people will argue these same things about westside. sure it's easier when you're AT westside or supertraining or have great partners. but a lot of people will follow the program without making any necessary adjustments for their individual needs. goes for any program out there, not just westside. and those adjustments take time. i've been training this way for 11 years and i'm still making tweaks to what suits me.
Ha I dont train with a conjugate system year round but i play with it when i feel i have stagnated. Its a great system. especially if you include the Cyclic Week(RE,DE,ME) that way you utilize all of the benefits, this of course extends the reg training week but it allow growth of the lifter and functions.My 2 cents.
Have a question for Westsiders here on box squats–So I've read the Louie Simmons article on box squats, and have done some other research. I'm a purely raw lifter (no belt, no wraps, no straps etc.) and will always be so: What is the best way to utilize box squats in my training? I've found everything from people like Dave Tate making blanket statements that he won't train the squat without a box anymore and thinks everybody should box squat (w/ out saying whether he meant geared lifters or not), to other people like Jim Wendler saying he thinks there is very little carryover if any for a raw lifter. So, the way Louie writes about box squatting obviously has the form geared towards equipped lifters, so how should I alter the form so increase the carryover to raw? I'm pretty sold that they're the way to go after trying them a few times, and seeing my sticking point in the hole already begin to improve. My initial thoughts are to essentially squat to a below paralell box using my normal stance, and then follow everything else he recommends in terms of chest up out of the hole etc. Seem on the right track? Any other thoughts would be highly appreciated.-Adam
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