Training Program Critique

This topic contains 56 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Richard Schmitt 7 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 57 total)
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  • #87169

    John Frantz
    Participant

    I'd love an experienced resistance training person's input, one who is having success with the CBL protocol. Ive done the ten day prep phase. Did a decent job but did forget to measure the weight loss. It was pretty effective so I'd guess between 3 and 5 pounds lost. I'm following the diet plan that Kiefer outlines in the back of the book for a 4pm training session because it seems the most recommended time and it fits well with how I like to break up my day. That said,mi want to make sure that my idea of resistance training is in the right range of someone who has had good success with it. I'm 5'8″ and about 200lbs, dense boned, don't appear roly-poly at all, a mesomorphic body type. I'd like to whittle down to a leaner 185 (and lower over time). 54 years old but look very youthful (I know every jackass thinks that but its true). I train three days a week, Body For Life style with Monday Legs and shoulders, Wednesday upper something either back and bi's or chest and tri's. I will do four or five sets of five with one minute breaks, using as heavy a weight as I can for up to about ten or twelve reps each set. Sometimes I will tag an exhaustion set on.  When I work out I will get to sweating and breathing for sure. I will throw in abdominals, oblique and crunches. I am getting to thinking, as I read and study CBL further, that I will do HIIT in off days with at least one day totally off any training per week, but at present I have not done anything like cardio. Appreciate any wisdom. I want to succeed. Oh, by the way, all I have is the bowflex adjustable dumbbells. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    #87170

    Richard Schmitt
    Moderator

    I would highly suggest finding a gym if you do want CBL to work properly as you want it to do. Those might be okay with CNS, but not much. I know this is a short answer, but this would be the most ideal suggestion then finding a program to fit your needs.

    #87171

    John Frantz
    Participant

    More detail given what I said would've been helpful. But thanks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    #87172

    Lesli Bortz
    Participant

    Honestly I'm not seeing answerable question/dialogue. If it's working you're fine. If you want to add some HIIT and see how it goes then go for it. If you just want wisdom then no one has that kind of time without you wanting specific advice…do you have a question or concern?

    #87173

    Robert x Oleary
    Participant

    Honestly I'm not seeing answerable question/dialogue. If it's working you're fine. If you want to add some HIIT and see how it goes then go for it. If you just want wisdom then no one has that kind of time without you wanting specific advice...do you have a question or concern?

    This.You want to lose weight, but there's no info macros, your "workout" description is vague at best, and adding "HIIT" is a statement, not a question. Tex offered the best advice he could for the info provided, you wanna lose weight on CBL, your bowflex dumbbells probably won't cut it. Might be time to invest in a membership to a facility that can offer you the variety of options to train at high intensity to really reap the rewards of CBL. If you don't do the work to earn the backload, you'll just gain weight. This is also why CNS might be advisable, as that would be a better program if you aren't putting in the amount of intensity for regular backloading. Maybe check out some of the logs to see how CNS members train vs CBL members regimens. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    #87175

    Melvin McLain
    Participant

    Oh, by the way, all I have is the bowflex adjustable dumbbells.

    Do you have the 1090s (10-90lbs) or 552s (5-52lbs)?If you have a pair of the 1090s, most anyone can get a decent workout with 180lbs and slow (5/5 sec) reps. The 552s are probably a bit light for the heavy training that CBL requires, but might work (for a while anyway) with "super-slow" (10/10 sec or higher) movements. Btw, those of you that don't think so should give slow reps a try. 😉My two cents.

    #87174

    John Frantz
    Participant

    Thank everyone, and Mac especially. He seemed to actually be able to glean what I said and respond. Others seemed to have just scanned my post and reacted. I wrote that I'm doing 5 sets each of 4 to 5 different resistance exercises at as high a weight as I can up to about 10 to 12 reps, but if it's intense I'll be fine with lower reps and the greatest resistance. To me that sounds like a fair amount of resistance training. Nevertheless, my question was pretty specific along the lines of “does that sound to *you* like adequate resistance training for CBL?”  That's all. Vague answers about going to a gym really didn't tell me anything. I'm 54. I've been doing work out programs of one kind or another–at gyms and home–off and on for 25 years or so! CBL is new to me and, not being what you'd called a consistent workout guy (being honest) but serious about getting CBL right, I thought I'd lay it out there for opinions. My workouts are usually about an hour and a half with stretching and warmup at the beginning, and they *feel* strenuous to the point of sweating and heavy breathing after any given set. My sense, so far, is that they are strenuous enough. But…maybe someone is going to say “hey, partner, not for nothing but you need to do back to back training instead of every other day for best results in CBL” or “Yo, my experience has been that you will need more weight eventually if you're using Bowflex 552s”– which is what Mac said. My guess is that I will get need the 1090s in a couple of months and a bench, or something like that to get me off the ground for range of motion. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    #87176

    Richard Schmitt
    Moderator

    My assumption was due to the information provided. Without knowing the full capabilities of what your equipment offers, first thought was “okay, they only go up to around 85lbs”. So hopefully you'll see and understand the suggestion I provided. While I get you wanted a definitive answer, giving vague and unclear information will yield similar answers. Sure the dumbbells you have could very well work with CBL if you monitor your macros accordingly to each day and training session. The reason for suggestions of going to a gym was to utilize the barbell. Yes dumbbells have their place, but I do recall that barbells will use allow you to use more force, in terms of using more glycogen to push or pull more weights. The basic 3, which I'm sure you're aware of with your 25 years or so of training experience. CBL can very easy to follow and use. If you base your carbohydrate consuming at night, especially post-training, you'll most likely see better performance and body composition. I would actually be interested in seeing how you progress with this. What will also help is shedding light on your body weight and current body fat level. Knowing those two will help determine whether or not CBL is a right fit.

    #87177

    Brandon D Christ
    Participant

    Thank everyone, and Mac especially. He seemed to actually be able to glean what I said and respond. Others seemed to have just scanned my post and reacted. I wrote that I'm doing 5 sets each of 4 to 5 different resistance exercises at as high a weight as I can up to about 10 to 12 reps, but if it's intense I'll be fine with lower reps and the greatest resistance. To me that sounds like a fair amount of resistance training. Nevertheless, my question was pretty specific along the lines of "does that sound to *you* like adequate resistance training for CBL?"  That's all. Vague answers about going to a gym really didn't tell me anything. I'm 54. I've been doing work out programs of one kind or another--at gyms and home--off and on for 25 years or so! CBL is new to me and, not being what you'd called a consistent workout guy (being honest) but serious about getting CBL right, I thought I'd lay it out there for opinions. My workouts are usually about an hour and a half with stretching and warmup at the beginning, and they *feel* strenuous to the point of sweating and heavy breathing after any given set. My sense, so far, is that they are strenuous enough. But...maybe someone is going to say "hey, partner, not for nothing but you need to do back to back training instead of every other day for best results in CBL" or "Yo, my experience has been that you will need more weight eventually if you're using Bowflex 552s"-- which is what Mac said. My guess is that I will get need the 1090s in a couple of months and a bench, or something like that to get me off the ground for range of motion. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    From a training perspective, and ultimately how your physique will improve, DBs are fine for upper body exercises, but you will have a very hard time effectively training your legs.  Sure you can do high rep sets of goblet squats with DBs and they will be hard, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's effective.To effectively train legs, you need access to a barbell or machines.  I'd recommend a barbell because it develops strength and athleticism (machines do not) and it is arguably more efficient.  Barbells are also very affordable and you can buy one for your home.  As a matter of fact you could probably sell your DBs and get a barbell set.Now, if you strictly care only about losing weight, your exercise program is fine, but you should change your diet.  CBL is not the appropriate diet.  CNS would be much better.

    #87178

    John Frantz
    Participant

    Ok. Fair enough. I wouldn't mind have a bar bell and the options a gym provides. I'll probably test my determination at home for a few weeks and the. Make the decision to go that way again. I think my not putting numbers down made it vague. To me weight amount, the literal poundage, that one needs for resistance is a very relative thing. I mean, when I first pressed any weight it wasn't a lot of weight but it worked me out nevertheless because that was what I could do. Now, even with a couple years away from lifting, I still start higher than when I first lifted because I'm stronger than when I was 30. So, again, poundage is relative to the physique and musculature of the individual. (I look like I have a body type a lot like Kiefer's, albeit not as well developed at this point) What I described in my initial question was the length of the routines, amount of sets per exercise and the fact that I am lifting enough to be able to do 10 to 12 reps with a minute in between. I described my experience as producing some heavy breathing (especially working large muscle groups like gluts) and sweating. So...4 to 5 individual types of exercise (Squats, lunges, standing calf raises, for example) 5 sets per eachHeavy enough to allow for no more than about 10 to 12 reps per set3 days per week (although I think I'll do 4 starting this week), alternating body zones like (1) legs and shoulders, (2) back and bi's, (3) chest and tri's. Grouping a day's routine like that was taught to me maybe twenty years ago by body builders I knew. But I'm open...My interest in writing this community stems from not knowing "it all". Indeed I'm a rank amateur with sporadic dedication over a long time. I was thinking that, in the spirit of Kiefer and his very scientific approach that perhaps I could find some suggestions about working out that would maximize gains while perhaps economizing time, etc. (For example, I had never read about HIIT and that has changed my thinking about that sort of training, partially because I don't want to spend a lot of time pounding around jogging. )I'll have to get some calipers and measure. Never have measured BF. The subject of macros I will have to reread in the book. It's a little confusing to me. I've been going by feel and taking th cues from Kiefer when he talks about gauging the actual condition of your body in terms of its strength, mental acuity etc. I don't pig out really and I definitely and very careful to use the accelerator formula and low low carb before training at 4pm. I splurge afterwards but not crazy. I personally love the way that I feel with the hypertrophic potentiator shake afterwards too. The whole thing feels right to me..Appreciate your thoughts, challenges. The good book tells us how we fellows operate best: Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    #87179

    Brandon D Christ
    Participant

    Ok. Fair enough. I wouldn't mind have a bar bell and the options a gym provides. I'll probably test my determination at home for a few weeks and the. Make the decision to go that way again. I think my not putting numbers down made it vague. To me weight amount, the literal poundage, that one needs for resistance is a very relative thing. I mean, when I first pressed any weight it wasn't a lot of weight but it worked me out nevertheless because that was what I could do. Now, even with a couple years away from lifting, I still start higher than when I first lifted because I'm stronger than when I was 30. So, again, poundage is relative to the physique and musculature of the individual. (I look like I have a body type a lot like Kiefer's, albeit not as well developed at this point) What I described in my initial question was the length of the routines, amount of sets per exercise and the fact that I am lifting enough to be able to do 10 to 12 reps with a minute in between. I described my experience as producing some heavy breathing (especially working large muscle groups like gluts) and sweating. So...4 to 5 individual types of exercise (Squats, lunges, standing calf raises, for example) 5 sets per eachHeavy enough to allow for no more than about 10 to 12 reps per set3 days per week (although I think I'll do 4 starting this week), alternating body zones like (1) legs and shoulders, (2) back and bi's, (3) chest and tri's. Grouping a day's routine like that was taught to me maybe twenty years ago by body builders I knew. But I'm open...My interest in writing this community stems from not knowing "it all". Indeed I'm a rank amateur with sporadic dedication over a long time. I was thinking that, in the spirit of Kiefer and his very scientific approach that perhaps I could find some suggestions about working out that would maximize gains while perhaps economizing time, etc. (For example, I had never read about HIIT and that has changed my thinking about that sort of training, partially because I don't want to spend a lot of time pounding around jogging. )I'll have to get some calipers and measure. Never have measured BF. The subject of macros I will have to reread in the book. It's a little confusing to me. I've been going by feel and taking th cues from Kiefer when he talks about gauging the actual condition of your body in terms of its strength, mental acuity etc. I don't pig out really and I definitely and very careful to use the accelerator formula and low low carb before training at 4pm. I splurge afterwards but not crazy. I personally love the way that I feel with the hypertrophic potentiator shake afterwards too. The whole thing feels right to me..Appreciate your thoughts, challenges. The good book tells us how we fellows operate best: Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    Volume, number of sets and exercises, and reps/set are all dependent on your goals and abilities.  From what it sounds like, you already know what to do.  Just do what you need to promote the gains you are looking for and adjust the diet to your training.  Whatever you do, DO NOT go down the rabbit hole and try to adjust  your training to allow you to eat more carbs in the backload.  The results are not pretty for those try that.It sounds like you are looking to simply improve you health and physique.  I think three or four one hour workouts a week is sufficient.  If you have been resistance training consistently for less than six months, I would do three full body routines a week.  If you have been training consistently for more than six months, I would do two upper body routines and two lower routines a week.Also trust me, you will get a MUCH better workout if you go to a gym.  I highly recommend it.

    #87180

    Melvin McLain
    Participant

    From a training perspective, and ultimately how your physique will improve, DBs are fine for upper body exercises, but you will have a very hard time effectively training your legs.  Sure you can do high rep sets of goblet squats with DBs and they will be hard, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's effective.

    He can also do suitcase squats, which allows holding more weight. And slow reps don't require near as much weight to achieve muscle failure in any case.No disrespect, you obviously know how to train (and train well). And I'm not saying a bar isn't an asset (it certainly is), but without a rack or something to replace it (I use chains to suspend the plates), you're still limited by the safety factor, and more so when doing squats with a BB than with DBs IMO.@jffrantz: It certainly wouldn't hurt to check out a gym. If nothing else, you can try different things and make a better informed decision about what to get for your home setup.Again, just my two cents.

    #87181

    Brandon D Christ
    Participant

    From a training perspective, and ultimately how your physique will improve, DBs are fine for upper body exercises, but you will have a very hard time effectively training your legs.  Sure you can do high rep sets of goblet squats with DBs and they will be hard, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's effective.

    He can also do suitcase squats, which allows holding more weight. And slow reps don't require near as much weight to achieve muscle failure in any case.No disrespect, you obviously know how to train (and train well). And I'm not saying a bar isn't an asset (it certainly is), but without a rack or something to replace it (I use chains to suspend the plates), you're still limited by the safety factor, and more so when doing squats with a BB than with DBs IMO.@jffrantz: It certainly wouldn't hurt to check out a gym. If nothing else, you can try different things and make a better informed decision about what to get for your home setup.Again, just my two cents.

    Slow reps are not a very effective training method unless you are an advanced lifter.  Like I said, just because it's harder, does not mean it's more effective.As far as safety goes, I would agree that is a concern with squats, but you do not need to do squats anywhere near failure for them to be effective.  A rack is therefore not really required with squats assuming the person is sensible enough to recognize safety hazards.  Something can always go wrong, rack or no rack.If squats are done with a few reps left in the tank (like they should) the chances or hurting yourself are very slim and the benefits are very high.

    #87182

    Melvin McLain
    Participant

    Slow reps are not a very effective training method unless you are an advanced lifter.  Like I said, just because it's harder, does not mean it's more effective.

    Hmmm... we're just going to disagree on this. Assuming proper form, being "harder" is exactly what causes greater damage/inroad (or whatever term you prefer) to the muscle fibers to trigger repair and subsequent growth.Personally, I've always had good luck with slow reps (though I've only started true HIT recently). One advantage was that I could get a better workout with lighter loads, and when doing squats, still lift the bar overhead to put it down safely.However, pretty much all of my training (since age 33) had to allow for a weak heart, and even more so at 57 and my current weight.

    #87183

    Brandon D Christ
    Participant

    Slow reps are not a very effective training method unless you are an advanced lifter.  Like I said, just because it's harder, does not mean it's more effective.

    Hmmm... we're just going to disagree on this. Assuming proper form, being "harder" is exactly what causes greater damage/inroad (or whatever term you prefer) to the muscle fibers to trigger repair and subsequent growth.Personally, I've always had good luck with slow reps (though I've only started true HIT recently). One advantage was that I could get a better workout with lighter loads, and when doing squats, still lift the bar overhead to put it down safely.However, pretty much all of my training (since age 33) had to allow for a weak heart, and even more so at 57 and my current weight.

    I would agree that slow reps cause more muscle damage (especially slow eccentrics), but muscle damage has a poor correlation with muscle growth.  Mechanical tension is the king when it comes to muscle growth.

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Training Program Critique

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